Model 1917

[abulg1972]

I'm looking at a S&W Model 1917, S/N 66XXX. It has the ordinance bomb on the receiver, the hammer is in the white, and the butt is marked U.S. Army Model 1917 with S/N and lanyard ring, but there is no "U.S. Property" stamp on the underside of the barrel (or anywhere). The right side of the barrel is stamped "SMITH & WESSON"; the left side of the barrel is stamped "S&W 45 D.A.". Can someone please tell me whether the missing US Property mark is a red flag or whether some of them were issued that way? Thank you.

 

[DWalt]

Is there a SN on the bottom of the barrel?

 

[abulg1972]

Yes. Matching serial number appears on the barrel and on the lip of the cylinder.

 

[DWalt]

Is there any sort of stamping (such as a star or diamond) ahead or behind the SN on the barrel? I am thinking it might be a factory replacement barrel, as S&W would transfer the frame SN to the replacement barrel.

 

[abulg1972]

The guy says that the font of the S/N on the barrel is the same as the other S/N stamps and does not look like it has been humped. He didn't mention whether there was any mark in front of the barrel's S/N. There's an ordinance bomb on the left top of the frame. Next to the trigger guard is an eagle and what looks like "SG".

 

[DWalt]

A circle, diamond, or star near the barrel SN could indicate a replacement barrel. There would likely also be some similar marking or markings on the grip frame under the grips to indicate factory service. There is usually some date stamped on the grip frame also, such as 4.28 (for factory service in April 1928). You might request a complete examination for such markings and a listing of them and their locations before you decide to buy, unless the price is really, really good. I don't know what "Humped" means. The SN stamping S&W applied to a replacement barrel would be the same as used on new guns.

 

[abulg1972]

Thanks. The price isn't a steal or anything - right around $620 shipped. My Google-Fu tells me that the barrel has to be a replacement, as you suggested. I passed on a mismatched one in very good condition earlier in the week that went for about $730, and I've seen others around that range. $600 isn't pennies, so I'm not sure I want to spend it on a gun that I know isn't correct.

 

[JSR III]

Photos would help. Stamps were put on by human beings and human beings make mistakes. It is not unheard of for a S&W to be missing a roll stamp occasionally.

It also depends on why you are buying. If it is a shooter or for protection, the barrel issue is moot. If you are looking for a collectible, the barrel could be a deal breaker. At $600 it is a steal. An average 1917 runs around $800 to $1,000 these days.

The SG near the eagles head is an identifier for the specific inspector that approved that gun. It should actually be S with a number like S1 or S2 etc.

 

[abulg1972]

The pictures are terrible/blurry and probably won't be helpful, as they just showed the marks that I described and nothing more detailed. I spent a lot of time on the phone with the seller asking questions. He wouldn't remove the grips.

I do think that the barrel is a commercial barrel that was replaced at some point, probably by Smith & Wesson, with the serial number transferred. I've asked the seller if there are any marks ahead of or behind the serial number on the barrel, like a star or diamond, but he hasn't responded yet.

This would be a collector/shooter and not a self-defense piece, so originality and condition are important to me. I do think that $620+ is on the high-end for a revolver that that has had its barrel replaced and is missing the US property stamp. I would rather have a correctly marked mismatched revolver for the same money. I watched three matching, properly marked Model 1917s sell today at the Alderfer auction for between $615 and $840, premium included.

 

[jmace57]

The Alderfer prices are right in line with what I have been seeing...although those were all in very good condition. I have paid $550 for the last two I bought. One was in almost the condition as those today....one worse. Both unmolested.

 

[murphydog]

The barrel stampings you describe are typical for a 1930s era model 1917 style revolver, such as the 1937 Brazilian, so if the barrel appears to be number stamped from the factory the chances they did the replacement are pretty good.

 

[kimporter]

i have one that has had the"US PROPERTY" stamp ground off,whole gun was then re-blued,i understand this was a common modification long time ago on "liberated" firearms

 

[Jack Flash]

i have one that has had the"US PROPERTY" stamp ground off,whole gun was then re-blued,i understand this was a common modification long time ago on "liberated" firearms

I do not know how common it was, but people used to do it. You will also encounter M1911s with the government propety markings likewise ground off.