Model 27-2 Question

[pharmer]

I am not an expert but I do have an opinion about everything. Looks like previous owner bulged the barrel. Brought it to a local shop (no factory refinish stampings) where gunsmith just happened to have a blue 5" barrel. Since the barrel needed stripping and then plating to nickel over, some serious polishing ensued and reinstallation of original insert yielding shrinkage observed. Spend $50 for the letter and you'll find out how it left the factory. Joe

 

[Alk8944]

A couple of questions and observations. Is the front sight Nickeled or blued? It appears to be Nickel in the photos. If so this is an indication of a re-finish.

The front sight has definitely been re-finished regardless. The dovetail for the insert should have sharp, distinct edges. Yours has definitely been buffed and has rounded edges. This explains the insert appearing as it does. The sides should be somewhat dull and look like they were finished on a belt sander.

Looking at the sideplate the logo seems to have been polished over. S&Ws of most periods have slightly raised edges around the roll-marked logo. When a gun is re-finished these are polished flat. Another indication of a re-finish on your gun.

FWIW I also have a 5" Nickel 27-2 with a SN a bit higher than yours, N331xxx. The barrel dimensions on mine are within .001-.002" of what you measured. I have to agree that if the barrel had been polished sufficient to remove the the barrel marks it would be smaller than this! So it probably was skipped originally. The roll-marks are applied before finishing, and cannot be applied after plating especially. S&W probably would not see this as a sufficient reason to scrap a barrel that was otherwise acceptable and simply use it.

 

[muddocktor]

Alk8944, those are the measurements off of my 27-2 for him to compare his to. He still needs to check those numbers against his barrel.

Also, talking about the logo on the sideplate got me looking at his pics closer. It looks to me like the edges of the top rib are more rounded than mine and the bottom part of the frame in front of the trigger too.

 

[spelasr]

Alk8944, I agree with everything you have stated. At closer look the front sight itself has been polished on the sides but, not at the top of the barrel where the sight is attached to it or part of it. If it has been refinished it is one heck of a fine job. It the correct lighting I can see now, a very slight difference in the barrel and the frame as far as the finish goes. I will say that I am leaning toward there having been a total refinish of the gun.

 

[bengal fan]

Is there a serial number in the shroud area? There should be a serial# there.
The gun is Beauitful!

 

[spelasr]

Shroud Pics

bengal fan, There is no SN in the Shroud for the extractor but, I did notice an "N" on the back of the barrel where it meets the frame, right there where the the Krane closes and meets the back of the barrel.

 

[spelasr]

After Further inspection with a magnifying glass, it appears to be a refinish with a new barrel. There is ever so slight fracturing of the nickel around the Pin for the barrel. Cant be seen or very hard to see with the naked eye. I don't think the barrel had the roll marks sanded off but left the factory that way sold to the retail market where a gunsmith did the work. A fine gunsmith for sure but not done by S&W. Thank you all for the help in leading me in the right direction. Seems I have a lot to learn about purchasing Unblemished S&W Revolvers.

 

[Doc44]

The N on the rear surface of the ejector rod shroud is how S&W marked their barrels when finished in nickel after the 4-screw frame was introduced in 1957. The N suggests the nickel was applied by S&W and is original. The red ramp is probably a gunsmith or owner addition. I think we have a situation where the barrel missed the roll markings steps. Makes for a great discussion piece. The front sight and ramp being nickel is correct as this was implemented around 1967, and there should be no serial number in the shroud (this was stopped around 1957).

Bill

 

[Abbynormal]

The hammer and trigger also appear to be flash chromed not case hardened.

I also have never seen or heard of a barrel with no roll marks whatsoever.

Could it be a S&W employee "Lunchbox gun"?

 

[spelasr]

Abbynormal, Thanks but I did check the hammer and trigger, They are case hardened just a little wore off on the exposed parts but inside after removing the side-plate for inspection and cleaning, they are indeed case hardened. Thanks and all input is appreciated.

 

[spelasr]

I think it looks damn good without the roll marks on the barrel myself. And the nickel is in great shape too. I love the way the 5" 27s handle too; they feel "just right" to me. And you can look forward to a lifetime of fun with that pistol too. I'm owning mine going on 41 years now and it still shoots good. But I do think I will send it in to S&W to give it a tuneup as I figure I have somewhere between 20k-30k rounds through it. I have a little endshake (not too bad though) and my forcing cone is showing a little erosion and I would like for S&W to bring it back as close to new specs as possible.

EDIT: BTW, heare are couple of pics of my old 27-2 for you:

Thats a fine looking M27 Doc.

 

[Nightowl]

Ok. Its time to stop with all this speculation and just use the gun for the intended purpose=lots of shooting pleasure! It is a very nice looking 27, boy do I love 27s.

 

[Tom_R]

First off, this is a beautiful gun. Regardless of what ends up being the history or truth, having an N-Frame with a 5" barrel for $725, is money very well spent. You could not go wrong at that price, and this gun, if well cared for, will last a lifetime.

Regarding the gun and the barrel:
- this appears to be an original factory Nickel gun
- the ejection star is blued ( which is correct)
- the trigger appears to be case hardened (also correct)
- the Cylinder is marked with an "N" indicating Nickel Finish

Regarding the Barrel
- this is definitely a Model 27 Barrel due to the top strap Checkering
- to me, it looks like a 5" barrel, not a cut down 6"

Ok now my theory, the barrel is either not original to the gun, or was re-nickeled.

As someone had indicated, maybe a replacement barrel in Blue was used, and then it was really polished and polished the roll marks off?

I'd recommend a letter from Roy Jinks to see what length it was originally.

Either way, that's some nice hardware.

My LGS had a 5" with box and papers and Tools for $950.

I stopped in yesterday and someone snagged it. They did well.

 

[Jamesatrange]

Live and learn and this lessen wasn't too painful. You ended up with more knowledge for future shopping and a very pretty model 27. Enjoy!

 

[muddocktor]

There was nothing painful about this purchase at all, IMO. Even if it's a refinished barrel, $725 for a 27-2 in this shape is a fair deal and will be a delight to shoot for years and years to come. The "N" on the cylinder face and at the base of the left side of the grip strap tells you that this pistol did come from the factory with a nickel finish originally. Mine has those markings in the same places and I bought mine new in April or May of 1974 straight from the gun shop it was shipped to in Natchitoches LA while I was in college.

And in my recent experience (last 6 months or so), finding earlier 27's at this price point and this shape is hard to do. With the rarer barrel lengths of 3 1/2", 4" and 5" especially hard to find a deal as low as this.

 

[g8rb8]

Regardless of all observations and speculation that is a beautiful piece and if you get enjoyment out of shooting it then any criticism is mute.

There are truths to be learned from this experience.
1. Guys are extremely distracted by bright shiny objects (fast cars and ladies too). Beware of your inability to resist your distractions.
2. Hurry up and slow down.

John

 

[spelasr]

LOL, how very true g8rb8. very true indeed. you would think I would have learned that in my 53 years on this planet but no, not me, I am still distracted by all of the above.

 

[A10]

Thats a GREAT looking revolver! I'm in the "factory original screw up" camp. Everything, with the possible exception of the ramp, looks absolutely right. I would have bought that one for certain!

 

[spelasr]

Update on this New to Me 27-2
I sent an email to S&W which prompted a reply from the S&W Level 1 support. The answers were minimal but they did at least verify the SN and year of production as 1978. They suggested I get in touch with Mr Jinks for more information that I need.

I was very fortunate to have actually spoken with Mr Jinks last night on the phone. Yes, I was surprised to actually reach him personally. His words of wisdom were that it may very well be a late 1977 production rather than a 1978 based on my SN which he did ask for. He stated that there will be no way to prove if it left the factory with or without the missing Roll Marks on the barrel. It may have been in one of the last batches made where the 5" barrels were used before changing to the 4" as they did sometime in 1978. Mr Jinks did suggest the letter to verify everything.

I have everything mailed in a certified letter with 12 pictures enclosed as he stated that the more information, the better. Now I just have to relax, and be patient in waiting the 16 to 18 weeks for the letter to come.

Thank you all for your help, advice, and input. This is truly a great place to come for information for any S&W enthusiast.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[spelasr]

Alright Experts, and especially those of you that surely know much more than I. What do you make of this strange letter about my 27-2. If finally came in the mail today and I am baffled to say the least.