Model 3 44RF conversion

[Wilson Custom Guns]

Hi gents,
Happy New Year!
I wonder if anyone can shed some light on a Model 3, Second Model in .44 Rimfire s/n 32623 . I'm told that it was a factory conversion from Centrefire for a "South American" contract. How would I recognise if this is a conversion or just a standard revolver built in .44 Rimfire ?
I'll post a couple of pics.

 

[bibain]

Hello
I think of a model 3 second model american, about 3000 were made in 44 rf, (cf the Flayderman's guide)
Only an authentication letter will confirm its history



Pace e salute a tutti
Bib..

 

[mmaher94087]

Picture #2 shows that the frame was originally centerfire as there is a firing pin bushing just below the cut for the rimfire hammer.

 

[iby]

I tend at agree with Mike Maher but a shot of the hammer profile might be useful

 

[wlw-19958]

Hi There,

Picture #2 shows that the frame was originally centerfire as there is a firing pin bushing just below the cut for the rimfire hammer.

I'm not too sure of that. I agree that the rust pattern makes it
look like there is a firing pin bushing but I cannot actually see
the bushing. Also, the cut for the RF hammer looks to go all
the way down into the area where the bushing is supposed to
be. It doesn't need to go so far down.

In the end, the pic just isn't sharp/detailed enough to see the
recoil shield clearly. Perhaps the OP would post a better pic.


Cheers,
Webb

 

[BMur]

Altered

Photo 1 is the OP’s hammer
Photo 2 is an earlier factory 44 Rimfire Hammer.

The blade shown by the Op is not correct. Please post a good photo of the hammer at full cock. Close ups.

**** more photos are needed ; close ups of the cylinder chambers, Rimfire slot, and profile of hammer at full cock.

Murph

 

[Wilson Custom Guns]

Hi Guys,
The revolver is with another dealer awaiting transfer, but I'll try to get a better photo.
Ref the difference in the hammer, the revolver is a second model, with the interlocking hammer if that makes a difference.
Thanks very much for the responses I'll try to clarify.

 

[BMur]

Alterations

It’s not the late improved hammer design. It’s the blade. Yours appears rounded. The originals are seen in the photo I posted. Pointed with a narrow flat.
Smith and Wesson hammers are also one piece. They are not inserted and pinned like Colts.

You have to be careful today regarding alterations since the 44 Rimfire variations have greatly increased in value. Caliber Altered guns are out there.

See photo of what your late model Rimfire hammer should look like. Notice it is one piece. Not inserted or pinned. Notice also that the blade tip is flat not rounded.

Murph

 

[mmaher94087]

I just enlarged the photo and now I'm not so sure that it is a converted frame. I no longer see what I thought was a firing pin bushing. I think a few more photos of the breech area are in order. Also, a clear photo of the hammer nose would be great. BTW, nice revolver.

 

[Wilson Custom Guns]

Hi Guys,
I have some more photos which may help.
The dealer offering it to me said he thought it was a factory conversion for "South America". Obviously my concern is that it is correct and not some local bodge. If it is good it can take it's place in the collection.
It does appear that the hammer is modified, but the breech face...not sure

Value is a secondary concern, it only has to be worth what he's asking

 

[wlw-19958]

Hi There,


I will leave it to more knowledgeable people to comment on it being a "factory"
conversion but it looks to me like the slot for the rimfire hammer was deepened
after it was nickel plated because there is no nickel in the lower part of the slot.

Cheers,
Webb

 

[BMur]

Non factory alteration

Thank You OP for the excellent and clear photos.
Unfortunately,
it has been altered outside of the factory. The Rimfire blade as suspected has been replaced and pinned. As mentioned by Webb the recoil shield Rimfire cut out has been grossly machined and elongated. See photo of what a standard cut out should look like.
The factory alterations from centerfire to Rimfire have a filled centerfire bushing with a cut out as seen in the photo.

In my opinion this was a centerfire 44 American that has been altered to 44 Rimfire in an attempt to increase its value.

Murph

 

[iby]

The hammer has been pinned unlike BMur's pic but does that mean it was not done by the factory?

 

[Wilson Custom Guns]

Thanks Murph,
I had feared that it was not a factory conversion.
In many countries in Europe the rimfire guns are considered antique and are not licensable, so they do command a higher price.
It is a pity, but there is a financial incentive to wreck a gun of historic interest for money.
I can have as many licensable revolvers as I like so I think I'll pass on this one.

 

[BMur]

Disappointed

Yeah,
It’s a tough road collecting antiques. It’s very exciting when you find a rare bird but when it’s proven altered it can be deflating. I’m glad you have an open mind and wish you the best of luck on “The Hunt” for rare birds!
I found this authentic photo in my endless notes for your reference of what a legit “ Factory converted” center fire to Rimfire should look like.

Murph

 

[mmaher94087]

I'll agree that the change to RF was done outside the factory. I see the ruminants of the CF bushing, but the RF hammer and slot are not factory.

 

[Wilson Custom Guns]

Cheers guys,
It's great to be able to use your depth of knowledge to understand the originality of these old guns.
Thanks again
Richard