Model 36 cylinder can be turned by hand when closed

[Frank121]

While I was wiping down my Model 36 flat latch (circa 1963) this evening I noticed for the first time that I could turn the cylinder clockwise to the next stop on the cylinder when it was closed.

This won't happen on all five cylinders, just two that are next to each other. I put an empty shell in the cylinders where I could turn the cylinder clockwise to mark the spots and it only happens at those two chambers. I don't see excessive wear on the cylinder indentions in the two places where I can turn it clockwise.

When I try to turn the closed cylinder counterclockwise by hand, it is locked in place tight and won't move at any stop on the cylinder. It is only when I try to turn the cylinder clockwise by hand when it is closed that I can turn it one notch at the two identified chambers.

Any thoughts about what might be causing this? I have never had this issue with any of my other vintage S&W revolvers.

Thanks,

Frank

 

[chief38]

The first thing that pops into my mind is that you could have a Cylinder Stop that is not fully engaging two of the Cylinder Notches or someone has filed or stoned down the Cylinder Stop in an effort to try and minimize a turn line and has gone too far.

If you have burrs that are preventing the CS from fully engaging (check Cylinder & CS) a few simple strokes with an Extra Fine Arkansas Stone will fix that. If your CS has been "Bubba'd Up and has been mis-shaped, then it needs replacement.

There are a few other possibilities also such as a Cylinder with too much end play or one that is not lined up perfectly straight because of a bent component but I can not diagnose that without seeing said revolver. Sound like a trip to a qualified LGS might be in order.

 

[armorer951]

As chief38 has indicated, if the top of the ball of the stop is severely worn or has been damaged or modified, the cylinder stop wil probably need to be replaced.

S&W stops are manufactured with an adjustment step that allows them to be "let out" so that the ball of the stop itself is allowed to come through the frame window further. If the stop is not damaged or altered, and the stop slots in the cylinder are intact, removal of material from the adjustment step is often enough to restore normal function without having to replace/refit a new cylinder stop. There is about .005" of adjustment provided by the step.



S&W illustration of the cylinder stop and the adj. step:

 

[Hondo44]

The 1st thing you want to know is if the cyl stop is reaching the bottom of the notch and if it's centered in the notch.

"Paint" the bottom of the cyl notches with a black Sharpie felt pen. Cycle the cyl around several times by dry firing in single action.

Look for a "footprint" of the cyl stop in the bottom of the notch; it'll be a bright spot in the ink.

STEP 1] If the footprint is off center, the top of the cyl stop is not shaped right and does not allow deepest and full engagement in the notches. Stone the top surface to reshape slightly so the high point of the stop leaves a footprint in the ink at the bottom of the notch. A Dremel tool with polishing wheel is good for this if you have some skill with one. Either can be done w/o disassembling the gun.

If the cyl line (cyl stop track) is off center in the approach ramp (notch lead), that's an indication the stop is not shaped properly.

Once you get the footprint at center in the bottom of the notch, check for cyl free spin. If not, you fixed it.

STEP 2] If no footprint in bottom of notch or cyl still free spins do as armorer951 has suggested. And then do STEP 1.

 

[OldChief]

All good advice but if you're not sure what you're doing, take the 36 to a smith. Sometime it's hard to pick up on things unless you actually see it done.

 

[Hondo44]

CYLINDER STOP TRACK

You'll see in other posts, that not all care about this issue and are quick to tell you. The cylinder line scribed by the cylinder stop is about the most obvious sign of wear. Not just a sign of shooting but also of cycling, opening for checking, or loading and unloading. If you aren't already aware, there are two things that you can do to mitigate or minimize cyl scribing:

1st HANDLING:

When you close the cylinder on a double action, with your left hand grasp it around the bottom of the frame with thumb and forefinger each in the cylinder flutes opposite each other. Position them at 3:00 and 9:00 o'clock just as the cylinder locks into place. The cyl stop will lock into the stop notch w/o having to rotate the cylinder with cyl stop rubbing on its surface. This will become a habit whenever you close a double action cylinder and you'll no longer have to think about doing it. This will prevent a FULL CYLINDER RING and limit it to an interrupted ring, and show a properly handled revolver.

2nd POLISHING THE CYLINDER STOP:

To mitigate "cylinder stop track" for all SA and DA revolvers - preventative action you can take and the 1st thing I do on any revolver of mine, new or used is pull the cylinder (or open it, in the case of DAs) and polish the cylinder stop!

Many come with file marks just waiting to carve out a line and groove in your cylinder finish! Stainless guns are the worst, they can gouge like aluminum. I have to look at the cyl stop surface with a 10 power jeweler's loop or my 10x gunsmith glasses (which are excellent eye protection as well) to truly see if the stop needs polishing. What looks good to my naked eye can be bad enough to mark up the cylinder. The sharp stop edges can really do damage and don't need to be knife edge sharp to function properly with a nice tight lock up.

Swing out or remove the cyl and I mask off the frame and breech face all around the stop with blue masking tape because I use a Dremel tool and it can slip off the stop. I wear my gunsmith 10x glasses and look for any irregularities. If there are any marks, I use a VERY FINE abrasive wheel in the Dremel tool to polish out the file marks, etc., but I don't touch the sharp edges or change the contour of the bolt unless it needs slight re-contouring to center it in the cylinder notch leads. If no file marks, I go straight to polishing.

With a little felt buffing wheel in the Dremel and white rouge (used for stainless steel) I put a mirror finish on the top surface. This is when I also address the sharp edges; I leave them nice and square but just dull the knife edge with the buffing wheel and the rouge. And I don't overdo it.

It only takes 10 minutes including masking and cleanup.

 

[Frank121]

Thank you all for taking the time to reply and for sharing your knowledge not just with me, but anyone who may search this forum some day with a similar issue.

I have never found a forum as full of information and helpful contributors as the S&W Forum. It has definitely saved me money on purchases and repairs, as well as greatly enhanced my enjoyment of the appreciation for vintage j-frame S&W.

I hope you all have a safe and blessed Thanksgiving and thank you again.