Model 36, Wolff Springs, light primer strikes

[shovelhead]

As the title explains I tried as a first step a Wolff Spring kit in my 1958-59 Model 36. Prior to this I removed the side plate, cleaned and lubricated the internals using Wilson Combat Light Oil.

I installed the 8# reduced power hammer spring and when dry firing it noticed a great improvement over the stock spring. I deferred trying the rebound springs as I didn’t want to potentially damage anything inside so I ordered the tool from Midway.

Took it to the range I work at yesterday and as I forgot my ammunition at home bought a box of Magtech.

Trigger pull #1 and 4 went off, 2,3,&5 did dent the primers but not enough to ignite. Tried again for five more shots, fresh rounds, 1 went off, the remainder did not. Changed back to the factory hammer spring, back to 100% ignition but the stiff DA pull like previous. And I rechambered all the previous ones that didn’t go off, this time all ignited.

I’ve thought about a nylon spacer between the cup and spring on the hammer spring rod, just enough to increase the pressure slightly. Right track or wrong track? I know conventional wisdom is to find a ammunition that reliably ignites but who’s to say that down the road the primers will be made to the same specs in today’s world.

I was pretty much figuring on staying with just the hammer spring replacement and depending on the results with my 2” I’d change my 3” also

 

[MikeR90S]

Wolff makes a 9 lb spring that works well for me. A properly sized spacer will also work, be careful the spring doesn’t reach solid height and bind things up. A 15 lb rebound spring is usually about right.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

All original springs in my Smiths. No failures......Engineered to work...Even in my old models.

 

[Alk8944]

First rule of any repair is if you make any change, there was no problem before the change and there is after the change, PUT Things back the way they were!!!!

People have the misconception that somehow Wolff springs are superior to S&W factory springs. They are not, just different. S&W has been building the J Frame revolvers for many years and know exactly what is best for absolute reliable function. Installing Wolff springs, especially, reduced power particularly, is often mistake. Replace the mainspring with the original or a new factory mainspring and the gun will again be reliable.

Learn to use the gun the way the factory built it without tinkering with springs and you will be far better off!

 

[ggibson511960]

I daresay a large fraction of M-36 and M-60 owners have been down this road. My abortive journey was with a M-60 years ago. The issue of a drop in trigger pull is seductive. At the end of the day all is easily rectified by putting the original stuff back in. As a degreed engineer I continue to be interested in the widely held, erroneous views about springs, spring constants and pre-load, and especially the myths about spring relaxation and the need to change springs periodically.

 

[oldrookey617]

I am no gunsmith. but have tried several combinations of those springs in 3 of my j frames, you might try the factory main spring, with a 13, 14, or 15# rebound spring. I like the 14#, it lightened up the trigger pull a little with no mis-fires, that's what I was looking for.. I use a phillip screw driver to install that spring, I keep my thumb over that spring to keep it from flying across the room, Clifford..

 

[darg]

This kind of replicates my experience with Wilson Combat springs. The 8# hammer lead to light primer strikes. Was a test for me and nothing more. So far 12# rebound makes the pull lighter and ignites reliable.
Most help to smoothen the pull out was polishing the hammer strut and cleaning up the swivel hole.

 

[chief38]

Guns and springs, just like in most mechanical devises are built with a margin of error on the reliability, durability and correct function side. They usually will not have springs in them that are just on the edge of working/not working - just a recipe for disaster!

In my lifetime of shooting I have competed in not all, but many of the different types of shooting and target events and for those purposes I will agree there is nothing like a tuned gun to do it with. That said, I have NEVER used one of my competition guns for self defense purposes and would not recommend anyone do either. My SD, EDC, CCW guns all contain the factory springs, parts and specs and I have trained myself to shoot proficiently with them as they are out of the box - maybe with the exception of changing out the grips. If I could not shoot said SD gun well, I changed to a gun that I could.

Here's a perfect example. When I was 21 and got into shooting pistols I did not have the funds to go out and buy a Colt GCNM which is what I wanted. Instead I started out shooting a USGI WW2 surplus 1911 that was actually a gun that served in the war. Not the prettiest, certainly did not have a target grade trigger (actually pretty stiff) and the sights were the standard USGI type. The trigger pull had little creep but was a bear to pull! Shooting USGI ammo (230 grain Service Ball) I practiced so much I became competitive with that gun. My fellow Club members were amazed that someone could shoot a standard issue common pistol with no gun-smithing, special sights or tuning as well as I did. That is the same thing I do with my EDC and SD guns even today. Just constant practice!

If you monkey with a competition or Range only gun the most you risk is a bad score, a lost competition or a little embarrassment. As long as you can get the pistol to reliably function with ANY loading that you use in the gun - you should be OK. As far as a SD gun is concerned, I want the margin of error that was built in and do not want the liability that comes along with carrying a non factory gun (even if only the springs were changed).

I can only speak for myself and know there are some who will strongly disagree. That is your privilege and choice. This is only what I do.

 

[shovelhead]

I’d just like to get the DA pull a bit lighter and I don’t expect it to be on par with my K frames. I shoot that 2” reasonably well and don’t plan on it as an EDC. I don’t know the previous history of that gun, if anything has been changed, for that matter maybe the hammer spring has been changed to a heavier one. A lot of things can happen to a firearm in 60+ years.

It seems to me that my 3” 36 is a bit softer on DA, it’s circa 1982 IIRC. But again I don’t know if anyone has changed anything internally it it or any polishing so swapping one unknowns component to another unknown isn’t a valid evaluation in my mind.

Yesterday before I posted this I called Wolff’s tech line. One answer I was given was “change ammunition to a softer primer” which I don’t agree with. It should fire reliably with any ammunition regardless of who makes it. I think we can all agree in this, it should ignite reliably. For example, who’s to say that ABC Ammunition in the modern world will be using primers with the same hardness cups next month as they are presently due to supplier changes? I’ve seen many ammunition boxes with FPS specs but nothing with primer cup hardness.

From what I’ve read the factory uses a 9# spring and the aftermarket offerings are around 8#. Variances in materials could make it lighter or heavier especially in aftermarket offerings.

 

[DukeSoprano]

The reduced power springs are for competition and people who reload and use only Federal primers. I compete with 4 different S&W revolvers and I have changed the hammers to a lot lighter ones (They move faster creating more force) and Wilson combat springs.
All have below 6lb triggers and work with federal primers only.

 

[shovelhead]

Duke, Federal is what the tech at Wolff advised me to use.

Wolff, Wilson and IWI on Midway’s site pretty much say the same thing about their kits:

Product Overview

Wolff Shooter's Packs contain reliable springs which provide a great improvement in the overall trigger pull and hammer function. Installation requires disassembly and reassembly of the revolver. Includes one 8 pound reduced hammer springs and one each 13, 14, and 15 pound reduced power rebound springs.

Note

Springs will not fit or function in Bodyguard J Frame with polymer frames.

I’d like to try a 8.5# spring if there was such a choice offered but haven’t found one yet.

 

[Borderboss]

Wolff says that the factory weight of the hammer spring is 8.5 pounds. I find it hard to believe that a drop to 8 pounds would make this much of a difference.

That said, I usually start with using a reduced power trigger return spring. That along with polishing the surfaces and lubing the rebound slide is usually enough to make a great difference without affecting the ignition.

 

[shovelhead]

Borderboss, Wolff’s also advised me to try just the 13# spring which I will once the tool arrives from Midway. With having a couple of K frames also it’ll probably get used fairly often together with loaning it to a friend that collects K’s also.

And everything I read indicated the factory hammer spring was 9#, I have to agree on your remark about a half pound, I can’t see how that would make that much of a difference but I’m far from an expert, first to admit that.