Model 360PD and Damage from Ammo

[krutsch]

Hi All,

I am pretty new to revolvers. I fell in love with the Model 360PD when I first held one (and fired one), so I bought a new one from my LGS.

I've decided to make this my summer EDC, so I want to practice with this gun as much as I am able.

.357 Magnum and .38 Special ammo was scarce, so I bought what I could find: Federal American Eagle 158 gr JSP, as well as some Buffalo Bore (125 gr JHP and 125 gr lead-free).

Well, I went to the range, fired a bunch of the Federal and the BB JHP. On my second range visit, I brought a glove, as my trigger finger was getting cut by the trigger guard - the recoil on this thing is real. I also added CT LG-405 grips, which has a stiff rubber back strap which helps a lot with the recoil.

On my second range trip, and after firing 10 rounds of the BB 125 gr lead free, I noticed this on the front of the cylinder (see attached image).

I contacted S&W and they promptly sent me an RMA number. Six weeks later, I have a new titanium cylinder installed and no questions asked - nice customer service from S&W.

Yesterday, I returned to the range with some .38 Special (Federal Punch +P, Buffalo Bore +P 'heavy', Fiocci wad-cutters), as well as Hornady .357 Magnum Critical Defense. By the way, the Buffalo Bore .38 Special +P 'heavy' felt like a .357 round, recoil and muzzle blast-wise.

The Hornady .357 was 'relatively' low recoil, compared with the other .357 rounds, but one round threw out some debris from the cylinder gap and left a small cut on my forehead. A gentle reminder of why we wear eye pro.

After the range visit, I examined my cylinder face and found a single, very small 'nick'. Similar to what's in the attached photo, but much smaller in comparison. Maybe from that Hornady round? Who knows...?

I have cleaned this gun with kid gloves - Hoppe's #9 solvent (only for the bore) and #9 oil with cotton swabs and patches - no brushes on the cylinder.

Now, I am wondering if I should even be firing this on the range and keep it only for carry. I noticed at my LGS that the new M&P 340 has a stainless steel cylinder; I am guessing that S&W has had to replace a lot of damaged titanium cylinders and they've had enough of that.

So, it seems like my choices are:

1) get a M&P 340 and practice without fear of damaging the gun, then carry the 360PD (another $800?),

2) practice and carry the 360PD with .38 Special +P (which I am guessing is easier on the cylinder,

3) go back to .40 or 9mm semi-autos.

EDIT:

4) Stick with heavier ammo, like the Federal 158 gr JSP, which might be better for the cylinder flame cutting problem?

 

[Pisgah]

The first .380 that S&W came out with -- imaginatively called the SW380 -- was designed to be fired for a finite number of rounds -- some say 2500 -- at which point it needed to be sent in for a rebuild. Hardly ideal for any gun, and part of the reason the model flopped (the larger part being it just stunk overall). From the day the titanium-cylindered guns came out I have felt they fall in to the same category. Not that they are inherently lousy guns, but that they are built to a standard that puts light weight ahead of durability. If you know that, and if the lightest weight is your main priority, they're great; if you also want to shoot them a lot, though, you may be disappointed.

Titanium is heck-for-strong when it comes to tensile strength, but it erodes horribly. Yeah, they put a protective coating on it; it doesn't last forever, and a traditional cleaning will take it off right now. In my opinion their freakishly light weight is their only advantage, and they are a carry-a-lot-and-shoot-rarely proposition. If I want a revolver both to carry and to shoot the bejeebers out of, it will be all steel.

 

[JimCunn]

Titanium cylinders are cheap. They can be replaced if they erode more than you wish. I shoot 147gr 9mm in my three converted .357Mag j-frame titanium cylinders. So far, no erosion, knock wood.

 

[BLUEDOT37]

The Hornady .357 was 'relatively' low recoil, compared with the other .357 rounds, but one round threw out some debris from the cylinder gap and left a small cut on my forehead.

Even though it has a new cylinder (or because of it) you might want to check and see how much barrel-cylinder gap it has & what the endshake is.

.

I'd practice with low power ammo that has the same POI as the SD ammo you'll be carrying & use the higher power SD ammo to a lesser degree if you have concerns.

Your wallet & wrist will like it too.

.

 

[629shooter]

Well, cylinder erosion is a "thing." At least they still produce that cylinder, unlike the 386PD.

I have a 340PD and a M&P340. Because I have dealt with cylinder erosion before, my 340PD only has about 100 rounds through it. It serves as a "backup," and I shoot the M&P340. It's gotta have around 1000 rounds of 125 gr. Magnum loads through it.

The M&P340 is one that I rarely leave without, and in my opinion, has the best sight picture of any J-frame.

If I buy another "spare," it will be a M&P340 (no lock.)

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

 

[shocker]

Go back to 9 or 40 in a semiauto.

 

[joebuck]

Bad luck. There is a bunch of stuff on the erosion thing on here if you dig hard enough. If you want to shoot .357's, I would only shoot 158 grain bullets thru it. Never clean the cylinder face with anything but nylon brushes and never use any cleaner with ammonia or such. I just use Hoppe's Elite.

 

[hyena]

I replaced the stainless steel cylinder on my 642-1 with a titanium cylinder. Seems like it was a couple years ago. I've probably put a 200 or 300 rounds through it. No signs of erosion. I clean with Hoppes #9 and a nylon brush. Might be my mild loads. I use 4.5 gr Unique, and 158gr coated bullets.

I shoot snub noses every range trip, since either that or my BG380 is my EDC. But I practice with the 640 Pro or Taurus .22 snubbie and generally save the 642 for carry. It's no fun to shoot, so I mostly shoot it enough to know it will work if needed.

Good luck with your problem. In my case, if mine starts to erode, I'll just switch back to the original cylinder, and live with the 2.2 ounce weight gain.

 

[smithra_66]

What about a 4th option: Get a proper ALL STEEL revolver and leave the "airweight" stuff to the NASA scientists?

a couple ounces isn't going to make you or break you.

 

[WR Moore]

What I see on the fuzzy image of the cylinder face appears to be some lead splash. Not that big a deal. If there's actual damage, I can't see it.

However, first of all, once you get past a minimum power level of .380-and that's a rather low floor- the single most important factor in your ability to stop an aggressor is shot placement. And, your ability to accurately and rapidly place shots is affected by recoil. Yeah, I know, everyone on this site is above average.......NOT.

So, as a start, I'd abandon the attempts to get absolute maximum ballistics out of your ammunition. S&W makes a featherweight .357 because there's a market for it. It doesn't mean it's an ideal choice for everyone/anyone. A quality HP/JHP that works in a .38 Spl +P loading should do you quite well.

Any mechanical device experiences wear, requires regular maintenance and has a life expectancy. That device where performance and light weight-like race cars-are emphasized and used hard requires more maintenance and has a shorter life expectancy. If you want longer life, you lift your foot/use lower pressure ammunition. Or, as someone suggested above, get an all steel firearm although the life won't be as long as it could be if you used less powerful ammunition.

 

[KalamazooKid]

For what it's worth, I shoot and carry my 340 PD with nothing but 158 grain 38 Special ammo.

 

[gnystrom]

I have owned a 340pd for over a decade and it has thousands of rounds of both 38sp and .357 mag (all 125gr.) with zero damage.
That revolver might be the best pocket snubbie ever made.

 

[joebuck]

The whole Ti cylinder erosion issue is a weird one for sure. Some people fry the cylinder in no time with 125gr or lighter .357's and others seem to have no issue shooting thousands of rounds thru them. I had a cylinder erode on a 386pd and it took me 2 years to find a replacement cylinder. I think it's a combo of "wrong" ammo usage and cleaning procedures. Either way S&W should put a warning label on these guns for proper cleaning (not buried in the manual like now) and develop a stronger coating for the cylinder face. I think if you use just .38+p you will be good to go with some occasional 158gr .357's if you fell the need for some extra power.

 

[krutsch]

What I see on the fuzzy image of the cylinder face appears to be some lead splash. Not that big a deal. If there's actual damage, I can't see it.

...

A quality HP/JHP that works in a .38 Spl +P loading should do you quite well.

...

It was not lead splash... it was physical erosion. S&W agreed and replaced the cylinder.

Yes, I've concluded that the answer is to use .38 Spl +P and call it a day.

If you've watched the LuckyGunner videos (Feed Your Revolver), they conclude that there is a limited selection of 'quality' .38 Spl ammo, with respect to penetration and expansion, fired from a short barrel; notably Winchester Ranger T and Remington Golden Saber. Good luck finding any of that ammo. I don't really know how seriously to take those findings, but the tests seem objective and thorough.

 

[krutsch]

The whole Ti cylinder erosion issue is a weird one for sure....

I think it's a combo of "wrong" ammo usage and cleaning procedures.
...

I have concluded the same, after a lot of reading on this forum and other places.

For me, as I mentioned in the post, I am being extremely careful with cleaning.

 

[krutsch]

Thanks, everyone for your helpful replies. I really appreciate the community on this forum.

I did consider moving back to my Sig P365SAS, but in the summer I am frequently walking around in track pants or basketball shorts. I use a Boraii pocket holster that makes it look like a phone or wallet in my pocket (see attached image). The 360PD is just way too easy to pocket carry.

I've decided to:

1) Restrict my practice & carry ammo to .38 Spl +P and continue a very careful approach to cleaning. Maybe occasionally shooting the .357 158 gr Federal JSP, which I think will be safer for the 360PD.

2) Instead of getting another snubby, I am going to purchase a S&W Model 19 - I have stockpiled a bunch of .357 ammo and I want to have fun with it, without worrying about damaging the gun.

 

[Gunhacker]

The other aspect of this... these scandium alloy frames are known for developing frame cracks under the barrel due it being so thin, there's been many a post about that on the forum:

http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-re...-12-21-post-46-a.html?highlight=cracked+frame

I myself would not feed this gun a steady diet of +P for practice, especially the Buffalo Bore stuff.

I have a 432PD, once I've printed it once with the SD ammo I plan to use, that's it... I don't subject it to a constant use. I just don't trust it, this was my first and last alloy frame.

 

[Echo40]

It's really sad, but this is literally all I ever hear about S&W's Scandium Frame, Titanium Cylinder revolvers anymore. I used to be really interested in both the 329 and 327, but they just don't seem to be very durable at all, and I've since lost all interest in owning either.

 

[Hasbeen1945]

I really wanted one of those little hand cannons. I was a little concerned about the cylinder. By accident I found a 360 J. It pretty well has the same frame but a SS cylinder. It also has a red ramp sight.
I’m real careful cleaning this pistol. I only use hoppes and Ed’s red.

 

[MG34/bar]

I’m surprised by the number of folks that have wear problems with the Titanium cylinder guns. I have a model 342 (CFC70XX) that I bought in about 2001 (pre-lock), and I early on shot the hell out of it (not so much lately as I close in on 80 years of age) without any problems. As I noted in a previous post, about 2-3 years ago I noticed that the yoke had a circumferential crack in the barrel portion (part that goes into the center of the cylinder) but S&W quickly fixed that (2 week turnaround) with a new yoke. The new replacement yoke is made of stainless steel rather than aluminum, but the Titanium cylinder has never exhibited any unusual wear or pitting: it looks like new.
I understand the remarks about the steel cylinder only having a small (about 2 oz) weight penalty, but in the middle of summer in either Las Vegas or Reno when the temps are well over 100 degrees, I want the lightest weight I can get for either pocket carry (with a MIKA bolster) or ankle carry.
By the way, I only clean the revolver with CLP and I can get it cleaned easily.