Model 41 no trigger

[newpistol]

I guess I should explain what I mean by "no trigger." During competition last week is in the last course of rife, loaded magazine with 5 rounds. Released slide and ready to fire on horn, pulled trigger and it pulled all the way back with no bang. the trigger pull felt like it does with the safety on or no magazine inserted. took a DNF on the course.
Took grips off next days and brushed out a little crud, but it wasn't that bad. Blew out and loose stuff with air compressor and resembled. Loaded up some snap caps and ran through it a couple hundred times. should be good.
3 days later at practice, loaded 5 round in each of the 5 mags. started normal course of fire. 20rds into it it happens again. set magazine aside and continues 3 more rounds with no problems. GREAT bad magazine and put it aside so I can look at it later.
Final competition on Monday and ready to finally get my average established (required 6 sessions). get to the last fire round and "no trigger" again.

Could I have made things worse by brushing magazine safety disconnect lever under right side grip? Could have the compressed air caused more problems? One of the guys at the range thinks there could be some type of broken spring.

I bought the gun used late last year and have only put 400 or so rounds (CCI SV) through it (UBYxxxx model number).

Season is over now and I want to completely field strip it to clean and replace any worn parts, but I can't seem to find a good video to follow.

Thank you for any help or recommendations, sorry this is so long.

Jeremy

 

[armorer951]

Not sure it will help with your specific problem, but there is some additional model 41 info here. (with photos)

Model 41 maintenance

Numrich has schematics at their web site

 

[leinster lad]

Take the grips off and observe the trigger bar, and how the mag disconnect affects the trigger bar.
Check the safety detent plate screw for tightness.
Make sure the safety stays off, and cannot move slightly into a position to block the sear.
Have a look at how the trigger bar interacts with the sear.

Make sure the trigger stop screw is not stopping the trigger from full stroke. The trigger bar MUST pull the sear fully out of the hammer cock notch AND safety notch.

You really need at least 1mm of over-travel in the trigger. (ie. trigger moves an extra 1mm once the hammer falls)

If the trigger bar can pull the sear out of the hammer notch, it will go bang.
(providing of course that the hammer and firing pin etc are all ok )

The mag disconnect physically dis-engages the trigger bar from the sear.
The safety physically blocks the sear from disengaging from the hammer.

All these tests can be done with the barrel and slide removed.

 

[newpistol]

Thanks for the replies and I will try to take a look at them this weekend. I was wondering if maybe the magazine disconnect is worn and slipping under certain conditions.

 

[leinster lad]

Thanks for the replies and I will try to take a look at them this weekend. I was wondering if maybe the magazine disconnect is worn and slipping under certain conditions.

Can't do this. You will see once you get the grips off.

One thing to note.
Upon firing, the trigger bar is pushed OUT OF engagement with the sear by a little ramp on the hammer.
This is to stop the thing going "automatic" on you !
The trigger bar is also pushed down and out of engagement with the sear by the slide moving back. (this is the out of battery safety)

This means, that for it to go bang with the NEXT round, the trigger bar has to RE-ENGAGE with the sear.
For this to happen, the trigger bar must be able to move back (rearward) far enough for the (very) little trigger bar spring to push the trigger bar UP to engage with the little tab on the sear.

So, make sure that the trigger bar can move freely thru its full movement range.

Remove the magazine.
Rack the slide and lock open.
Take the barrel off.
Take the slide off.
Take the grips off. (The hammer will already be cocked)

(( Cock the hammer back with your thumb when testing. Dry firing is no problem as there is no firing pin to damage. (it was removed with the slide ))

Have a good look at how the trigger bar interacts with the mag release and the sear.
Insert and remove the magazine and notice how it moves the mag disconnect and therefore the trigger bar.
See the very small trigger bar spring and note its job to LIFT the trigger bar up to the sear.
Notice what happens when the mag is removed.
Insert mag and notice what happens with the trigger bar.
The strongish mag disconnect spring is what pushes the mag out of the frame when the release button is pressed.
It also PUSHES the trigger bar DOWN and therefore out of engagement with the sear.
Inserting the mag fully pushes the mag disconnect up and OFF the trigger bar.

The trigger bar moves up and into engagement with the sear ONLY by the pressure of the little trigger bar spring. Therefore ANY dirt, gunk hindrance to its movement will most likely be stronger than the little spring can overcome = no sear engagement = no bang.

Slowly pull the trigger and watch what happens with the trigger bar, pulling on the little tab on the sear.
With the hammer dropped, operate the trigger and look at how it moves.
Notice it is being pushed DOWN away from the sear by the little ramp on the hammer.
Cock the hammer back again and watch the trigger bar slide up and engage with the little tab on the sear.

Take your time, have good lighting and a good magnifying glass.
You will figure it out.
remember, these are VERY simple machines.

 

[newpistol]

Thanks again for all the feedback, unfortunately work has been crazy and the next couple weeks will be still. I'll try to fit in a little time thing weekend maybe to watch the operations closely.

 

[Patrick L]

Since the problem occurs after you have shot the gun awhile, then it seems to go away when you get home and are trying to sort it out, I wonder if it is somehow hear related? In other words, as the gun heard up could something be expanding and causing the problem?

 

[Patrick L]

HEAT related. HEATS up. D@mn auto correct!