Model 46 - Need Some Help Please

[teletech]

Thanks Teletech - the above was very useful!

I am adding a couple of closer pictures of the long barrel. It definitely has some rust issues on the high points - my hypothesis is that the long barrel may have sat in a leather holster for while and this has caused cosmetic issues. This is no better than Fair.

In your (an any others) view, is this a useful barrel (shooting wise), or do you see any potential compromises to it?

The shorter barrel and the frame / slide look in much better VG condition which I do not mind, as I do intent on shooting it.

I do NOT have have a model 41, I have model 422 and 2213 (very different guns - I know they are not comparable due to very different designs), but I also have two High Standards (S101 Supermatic and 107 Trophy) and two Belgium made Brownings, in addition to a handful of K-22s / 17s / 617s / DWAs, Colt Woodsman 1st Series, and a Ruger MK II heavy barrel. I LOVE shooting them all, and was thinking of using the long barrel of the 46 as the 'shooter' (even put a red dot on it since it has the rails already) while preserving the 5 inch barrel as 'the collectible' barrel - this way I get to 'shoot it and collect it' in one gun. Otherwise I will have to get two (as I do with many other S&Ws) - an excellent condition 'collector' and a nice (G-VG) shooter.

I will still like to get a very nice early 41 as a collector piece when the right one comes closeby (so I can inspect in person)...

Thanks again everyone for weighing in!

I love the field barrel for a field gun, but it's also true the 7" guns are usually more accurate and reliable. You could mount a dot and if your discipline benefits from faster sight acquisition then it's a win, but with a gun that might shoot .3" groups at 25yds, a magnified optic isn't a bad thing to have to help you put a smile on your face.
Having two barrels means double the chance to get one that really shoots. I've been keeping the most accurate barrels for a while now and my very best is also cosmetically-challenged from some flux or something getting on the finish. Would I like it to be prettier, well sure, but not at the expense of the lovely accuracy this particular barrel provides. With irons the 7" does give some additional sight radius and also the extra mass out front helps with rapid fire and steadying the weapon. The bottom line is the 5" is very cool and handy, but the 7" will almost surely outshoot it every day of the week.
I was spoiled early and didn't know it. An old marine Captain (RIP Gunny) sold me his personal 46 when I was too young to know just how good a gun it was, I then proceeded to try perhaps a dozen other .22 target pistols, including some rather more expensive guns, before ending up right where I began with the 41/46.
Some were more reliable and a few were even more accurate (with expensive ammo, my 41 loves Federal Automatch), but none made me smile more on a good day behind the trigger or felt like they covered for me on the not so good days.

Pretty 7" barrel for a 41 is $300+, Pretty 5" is at least $450, 46 is rarer but you don't have condition on your side. Even so, it's worth $100 for me to try the ugliest 46 barrel in the world if it looks like it might shoot well and really I don't think you could put me off for under $200. In fact, as long as it's not cracked or obviously mangled (apart from the rail), consider that a firm offer.
I know there are several here who have been collecting for decades longer than me or are just really lucky, but to me it's a run-don't-walk sort of buy. If you just have to, you can always offer $50-100 less just for the look of the thing so the LGS doesn't feel bad about selling too cheaply.

 

[CKPOMEH]

I love the field barrel for a field gun, but it's also true the 7" guns are usually more accurate and reliable. You could mount a dot and if your discipline benefits from faster sight acquisition then it's a win, but with a gun that might shoot .3" groups at 25yds, a magnified optic isn't a bad thing to have to help you put a smile on your face.
Having two barrels means double the chance to get one that really shoots. I've been keeping the most accurate barrels for a while now and my very best is also cosmetically-challenged from some flux or something getting on the finish. Would I like it to be prettier, well sure, but not at the expense of the lovely accuracy this particular barrel provides. With irons the 7" does give some additional sight radius and also the extra mass out front helps with rapid fire and steadying the weapon. The bottom line is the 5" is very cool and handy, but the 7" will almost surely outshoot it every day of the week.
I was spoiled early and didn't know it. An old marine Captain (RIP Gunny) sold me his personal 46 when I was too young to know just how good a gun it was, I then proceeded to try perhaps a dozen other .22 target pistols, including some rather more expensive guns, before ending up right where I began with the 41/46.
Some were more reliable and a few were even more accurate (with expensive ammo, my 41 loves Federal Automatch), but none made me smile more on a good day behind the trigger or felt like they covered for me on the not so good days.

Pretty 7" barrel for a 41 is $300+, Pretty 5" is at least $450, 46 is rarer but you don't have condition on your side. Even so, it's worth $100 for me to try the ugliest 46 barrel in the world if it looks like it might shoot well and really I don't think you could put me off for under $200. In fact, as long as it's not cracked or obviously mangled (apart from the rail), consider that a firm offer.
I know there are several here who have been collecting for decades longer than me or are just really lucky, but to me it's a run-don't-walk sort of buy. If you just have to, you can always offer $50-100 less just for the look of the thing so the LGS doesn't feel bad about selling too cheaply.

Great thoughts above, teletech - I appreciate your input here! My hope is that I find the 41/46 platform as enjoyable as you and others here find it. This is the last 22 LR platform from the legacy big 5 that I do not have (Browning, Colt, HS, Ruger, S&W) and I definitely look forward to seeing how I do with it - being a 41 or 46 model. So far my top 2 are the HS S101 Supermatic and the Browning Challenger (slanted grips seem to fit my wrists better?) but that 46 cycled so smooth in the store, I can see it being a very pleasant and balanced platform, especially that 7 inch barrel with and w/o optics on it (as you pointed out as well).

Will update the group post my return trip to the LGS tonight or tomorrow (I have it on hold there until EOD Thursday....;-)

Cheers!

 

[CKPOMEH]

I love the field barrel for a field gun, but it's also true the 7" guns are usually more accurate and reliable. You could mount a dot and if your discipline benefits from faster sight acquisition then it's a win, but with a gun that might shoot .3" groups at 25yds, a magnified optic isn't a bad thing to have to help you put a smile on your face.
Having two barrels means double the chance to get one that really shoots. I've been keeping the most accurate barrels for a while now and my very best is also cosmetically-challenged from some flux or something getting on the finish. Would I like it to be prettier, well sure, but not at the expense of the lovely accuracy this particular barrel provides. With irons the 7" does give some additional sight radius and also the extra mass out front helps with rapid fire and steadying the weapon. The bottom line is the 5" is very cool and handy, but the 7" will almost surely outshoot it every day of the week.
I was spoiled early and didn't know it. An old marine Captain (RIP Gunny) sold me his personal 46 when I was too young to know just how good a gun it was, I then proceeded to try perhaps a dozen other .22 target pistols, including some rather more expensive guns, before ending up right where I began with the 41/46.
Some were more reliable and a few were even more accurate (with expensive ammo, my 41 loves Federal Automatch), but none made me smile more on a good day behind the trigger or felt like they covered for me on the not so good days.

Pretty 7" barrel for a 41 is $300+, Pretty 5" is at least $450, 46 is rarer but you don't have condition on your side. Even so, it's worth $100 for me to try the ugliest 46 barrel in the world if it looks like it might shoot well and really I don't think you could put me off for under $200. In fact, as long as it's not cracked or obviously mangled (apart from the rail), consider that a firm offer.
I know there are several here who have been collecting for decades longer than me or are just really lucky, but to me it's a run-don't-walk sort of buy. If you just have to, you can always offer $50-100 less just for the look of the thing so the LGS doesn't feel bad about selling too cheaply.

Ok, teletech and overall gang here, an update: I bought the gun about a week ago (got it down to $900 + tax), and manage to take it to the range twice already with the 7 inch barrel.

1st range visit: Shot off hand, from 30 feet, along with my HS S101. I shot the M46 not as good as the HS but the grips were just too square for my liking, I definitely missed the thumb rest from the HS as I was shooting the M46. I did 2 inch groupings for the most part. Loved how it felt and cycled, for sure!

2nd range visit today: I took teletech's advice and put an optic on it - something no self-respecting shooter should probably do, but I did put a cheap rifle scope I had from another purchase on it...sighted it, and then went 25 yards with it. Used standard velocity CCI bulk pack, 40 grain, lead round nose. This is my second time shooting a scope, so I am still learning but thought the groups I got - 1/2 to 1 inch are respectable. See attached, the orange circles are 1 inch. Several groups were 1/2 inch. Needless to say, I cannot do this with open sights, I just cannot see well enough to do it...

All in all, it was a a lot of fun, and definitely a new shooting experience for me. Now I am starting to think I should not get a red dot, but a pistol scope? This way I can shoot it off hand w/o needing to bring it so close to my face which was awkard for sure!

 

[Yendor357]

CK, l think you made a wise investment. I’d have bought that package in a heartbeat. One Undeniable Truth about Guns: The price is always going up. If you think you paid too much, just wait a few years. Years ago, I had a 7 inch Model 41 with a Leupold 2X scope. I loaned it to a “friend” whose house burned down suspiciously. I think his junky offspring stole it and sold it for drug money, but could never prove it.A scope on a pistol is an eye opener. I recently bought a 7 inch barrel, only for one of my Model 41s. It shoots so good, I hesitate to scope it, even tho that was the intention when I bought it.

Don’t hold me to this, but I was looking at Midway USA the other day for recoil springs for my Model 41s, and stumbled across a set of plastic grips listed for a Model 41. So they would probably be correct for your gun. They were cheap. Go look.

 

[CKPOMEH]

CK, l think you made a wise investment. I’d have bought that package in a heartbeat. One Undeniable Truth about Guns: The price is always going up. If you think you paid too much, just wait a few years. Years ago, I had a 7 inch Model 41 with a Leupold 2X scope. I loaned it to a “friend” whose house burned down suspiciously. I think his junky offspring stole it and sold it for drug money, but could never prove it.A scope on a pistol is an eye opener. I recently bought a 7 inch barrel, only for one of my Model 41s. It shoots so good, I hesitate to scope it, even tho that was the intention when I bought it.

Don’t hold me to this, but I was looking at Midway USA the other day for recoil springs for my Model 41s, and stumbled across a set of plastic grips listed for a Model 41. So they would probably be correct for your gun. They were cheap. Go look.

Thanks Endor357 - yes, a scope for a pistol is truly an eye opener!

A couple of quick follow ups:

1) I could not find the M41 on the Midway USA site...can you send me the link (I feel like an idiot!). I would love if I could find M46 plastic grips to put it back in original grips condition.
2) I am new to scopes, have very little idea what to look for. Would you suggest a particular model (entry/mid level $ range) for this 7 inch barrel?

Thanks,
Slav

 

[Yendor357]

Midway USA has possibly the world’s worst search feature.

What I did was: Type Smith and Wesson Model 41 in the Midway USA search bar. Then click on the pistol. Once there, scroll down to the bottom of that page, they will always put a related item or 2 there. I think I then clicked on the magazine, and the grips were at the bottom of the M41 magazine page?

 

[Yendor357]

Outch! These things have gone up. Start brown bagging your lunch.
I don’t buy cheap scopes. That’s money thrown away when they eventually break and you have to buy a good one after all.

 

[CKPOMEH]

Midway USA has possibly the world’s worst search feature.

What I did was: Type Smith and Wesson Model 41 in the Midway USA search bar. Then click on the pistol. Once there, scroll down to the bottom of that page, they will always put a related item or 2 there. I think I then clicked on the magazine, and the grips were at the bottom of the M41 magazine page?

Found it - it took a while for sure! ;-) Thank you!

 

[CKPOMEH]

Outch! These things have gone up. Start brown bagging your lunch.
I don’t buy cheap scopes. That’s money thrown away when they eventually break and you have to buy a good one after all.

Oh boy, I should probably even skip a couple of lunches...;-)

Would you recommend a 2X over 4X? I know it will depend on the shooting distance. I will most likely do shoot it ~ 50-60 feet or so with the scope...

 

[teletech]

I'd be posting in the classified ads on the forum here looking for both a pistol scope and a set of stocks for a M41. Short of that check a nearby gun-show or ask that LGS if they have a box of random handgun scopes and you might get lucky. Decent to excellent handgun scopes are going wanting as bullseye, silhouette, and benchrest shooters die-off and the shooting sports are all red-dot run-and-gun situations. fixed-power low-magnification scopes are easy to do a good job of, so I wouldn't snub a Japan-built Tasco for a good price, but even a Leuopold should be sub-$200. Think I got one for $120 recently.
You'll find that even a 1.5x scope provides a surprising improvement in the ability to find the center of the bull. 4X is a LOT of magnification for a handgun, unless your hold is amazingly still you're going to get queasy with how much things move around.
Once in a while you will see stocks for the 46 on Gunbroker, Ebay, or the like, but since the 41 stocks are vastly more common and being wood rather than plastic look and feel nicer anyway, I'd go that route, unless you want to be a stickler for originality.

The real question is, how do you feel about your purchase now that you've had it to the range a couple times?

 

[Yendor357]

Here’s your scope. $103+$10 for the base.

This would look good on your 46. And you won’t starve in the process.

 

[CKPOMEH]

I'd be posting in the classified ads on the forum here looking for both a pistol scope and a set of stocks for a M41. Short of that check a nearby gun-show or ask that LGS if they have a box of random handgun scopes and you might get lucky. Decent to excellent handgun scopes are going wanting as bullseye, silhouette, and benchrest shooters die-off and the shooting sports are all red-dot run-and-gun situations. fixed-power low-magnification scopes are easy to do a good job of, so I wouldn't snub a Japan-built Tasco for a good price, but even a Leuopold should be sub-$200. Think I got one for $120 recently.
You'll find that even a 1.5x scope provides a surprising improvement in the ability to find the center of the bull. 4X is a LOT of magnification for a handgun, unless your hold is amazingly still you're going to get queasy with how much things move around.
Once in a while you will see stocks for the 46 on Gunbroker, Ebay, or the like, but since the 41 stocks are vastly more common and being wood rather than plastic look and feel nicer anyway, I'd go that route, unless you want to be a stickler for originality.

The real question is, how do you feel about your purchase now that you've had it to the range a couple times?

Thanks for the suggestions - I will look for a 2x pistol scope, similar to the one Yendor 357 suggested, spending $150-200 is reasonable on a $900 target gun IMHO.

As to the grips, I am already following a couple of 41 specimen on Ebay, and also looked up on the Altamont site - seveal good options there as well, no concerns there. While the purple plastic are OEM, I like the wood ones from M41 more, so I am going this route. I always put wood or elk antler grips on my pistols / revolvers with the exception of my two 357 EDC revolvers - both have rubber grips for better recoil control and follow up shots.

As to the real question - the gun is worth it! Heck, I did not know one can get to 1/2 inch groups from 25 yards with a pistol, let alone that be me! I like the versatility of the two barrels - my plan so to shoot mostly the 7 inch with the optic, and test the 5 inch with open sights but probably won't do much shooting with the 5 inch as I have a dozen other 22LR pistols and revolvers with open sights (that do not have rails on them).

I also ordered a cheap red dot from Amazon the other day, will test it with the red dot as well. I have been an open sights fan forever but I am in my mid 40s, so eyesights is starting to weaken and I am still resisting putting on glasses...;-) Scope and red dots solve that mystery!

Since we discussed the weakness of those early 46 models due to the square design, shall I do something with the recoil spring (replace to different specs)? I changed the recoil springs on a couple of of my other older 22 LR pistols per recommendations I read on the forums to change those every 8-10K shots (specifically on the older High Standards). Does that apply to the 41/46 platform? So far, the gun has had very little hick-ups - only 1 fail to eject and 2-3 light primer strikes in the 250 or so rounds I have through it. It is running more reliably than the High Standards (those seem to want to be cleaned every 200 rounds or so) - I assume it may be fine, but seeking inputs!

PS: Teletech - if you get a chance, try out a Belgium made Browning Challenger, it will put a smile on your face as well. It is lighter than the M41/46, so feels 'different', but it is as smooth and those grips seem to be molder to my hand (small to medium size paws here). Just trying to return the favor...;-)

 

[Yendor357]

A friend of mine sent a text to me yesterday with some “gun stuff” from his recently departed brother. Nothing interesting…..But wait! Is that a 2X Leupold pistol scope? It was. And is, now mine. The scope is silver/aluminum, so it’s going to look funky on my M41 if I put it on that gun. As for right now, it is on a 6 inch 629-4, and looks old school cool!
Weigland mount on the 629, if you were curious.

CK, I thought about suggesting a cheap red dot from Amazon, but you seemed fixed on a scope, so I did not. I have a red dot that cost less than $40 on a Ruger Challenger. It’s worked perfectly and is a lot of fun on the Challenger.


A scope would look more correct on a 46, but who really cares? It all about the fun.

Gotta love M41/46s.

~Edit: My used Leupold 2X with my used 629-4. My group isn’t nearly as impressive as CKs. 27 yards. The scope was sliding forward; Maybe I can do better next time. I doubt it! lol

 

[teletech]

Thanks for the suggestions - I will look for a 2x pistol scope, similar to the one Yendor 357 suggested, spending $150-200 is reasonable on a $900 target gun IMHO.

As to the grips, I am already following a couple of 41 specimen on Ebay, and also looked up on the Altamont site - seveal good options there as well, no concerns there. While the purple plastic are OEM, I like the wood ones from M41 more, so I am going this route. I always put wood or elk antler grips on my pistols / revolvers with the exception of my two 357 EDC revolvers - both have rubber grips for better recoil control and follow up shots.

As to the real question - the gun is worth it! Heck, I did not know one can get to 1/2 inch groups from 25 yards with a pistol, let alone that be me! I like the versatility of the two barrels - my plan so to shoot mostly the 7 inch with the optic, and test the 5 inch with open sights but probably won't do much shooting with the 5 inch as I have a dozen other 22LR pistols and revolvers with open sights (that do not have rails on them).

I also ordered a cheap red dot from Amazon the other day, will test it with the red dot as well. I have been an open sights fan forever but I am in my mid 40s, so eyesights is starting to weaken and I am still resisting putting on glasses...;-) Scope and red dots solve that mystery!

Since we discussed the weakness of those early 46 models due to the square design, shall I do something with the recoil spring (replace to different specs)? I changed the recoil springs on a couple of of my other older 22 LR pistols per recommendations I read on the forums to change those every 8-10K shots (specifically on the older High Standards). Does that apply to the 41/46 platform? So far, the gun has had very little hick-ups - only 1 fail to eject and 2-3 light primer strikes in the 250 or so rounds I have through it. It is running more reliably than the High Standards (those seem to want to be cleaned every 200 rounds or so) - I assume it may be fine, but seeking inputs!

PS: Teletech - if you get a chance, try out a Belgium made Browning Challenger, it will put a smile on your face as well. It is lighter than the M41/46, so feels 'different', but it is as smooth and those grips seem to be molder to my hand (small to medium size paws here). Just trying to return the favor...;-)

See, *that's* what I love the most about the 41/46! It's not inherently more accurate than a lot of cheaper guns, but it just seems to be easier to shoot well.

If you think .5" at 25 yards is impressive, when you get that scope it will be time to push back to 50 and 100yards. Fair chance you'll be able to outshoot some rifles, which is a fun trick at the range.

They do sell the little plastic recoil buffers for the 41/46 and I do run one. It doesn't seem to hurt reliability and feels like very cheap insurance. A 41 slide/barrel will run fine on a 46 frame, just in case the worst should ever happen.

I haven't tried the Challenger, something to keep an eye out for.
I have tried the Hammerli Trailside and *almost* liked it. Feels a lot like a modernized alloy 46. The stocks on the Trailside feel awful to me though, so I'd have to order up a set of Nills.
I also ran a Walther/Hammeril Olympia (think granddad to the 208). The lower bore axis made for much faster followup shots, but overall it just didn't bring me the same joy as the S&W.