Model 51 .22 Magnum...
- Thread starter LEO918
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That is one nice kit gun. Been looking for one locally for many years now. Around here they just never come up for sale. Guess I'm going to have to expand my search.
Very nice. I have a set of those smooth target J frame grips tucked away.
Have you shot it yet? I had trouble with a M34 that wasn't reliable in double action. I hope yours does better than mine.
Have you shot it yet? I had trouble with a M34 that wasn't reliable in double action. I hope yours does better than mine.
S.B.
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I do alright with LRs magnums are far too loud for me.
Steve
I've had one for a long time. I was planning a western hunt and bought it thinking it might be wise to have along, in certain circumstances. I wasn't interested in wearing a heavier gun, and quite a few of the new lightweight model handguns we're used to now weren't available back then.
I shot the 51 enough to feel satisfied I could hit a rabbit with it out to around 50-feet, maybe 75. Winchester FMJs always shot best in my 51. My thinking was I could carry a box of .22 magnums with very little concern for space or weight, whereas not so with a box of .44s.
I was always under the impression my Model 51 might outshoot my Model 34 by a small margin, but it sure cost a lot more to feed.
I shot the 51 enough to feel satisfied I could hit a rabbit with it out to around 50-feet, maybe 75. Winchester FMJs always shot best in my 51. My thinking was I could carry a box of .22 magnums with very little concern for space or weight, whereas not so with a box of .44s.
I was always under the impression my Model 51 might outshoot my Model 34 by a small margin, but it sure cost a lot more to feed.
Those targets make that dude look sweet...
Texas Star
US Veteran
Do you have extraction problems? I HATED my M-34, which had to have empty cases POUNDED out and swear that I'll never again buy a S&W .22 revolver.
My M-60-4 really fills that need better, anyway. It'll kill small game and protect against snakes and larger animals much better than will a .22.
Elmer Keith mentioned this gun and said that he and Lorraine had enjoyed a number of grouse dinners thanks to his. So, I guess he liked the M-51.
What velocity does one get from a 3.5 inch barrel in .22 WMR? Will Stinger or other hot .22 LR loads kill as well?
My M-60-4 really fills that need better, anyway. It'll kill small game and protect against snakes and larger animals much better than will a .22.
Elmer Keith mentioned this gun and said that he and Lorraine had enjoyed a number of grouse dinners thanks to his. So, I guess he liked the M-51.
What velocity does one get from a 3.5 inch barrel in .22 WMR? Will Stinger or other hot .22 LR loads kill as well?
Texas Star... I don't recall extraction problems with either Model 51 or Model 48. Here's some really old chronograph information for you. I did not write down a date but I don't think I had a chronograph until the early- to mid-90s, so I'd guess sometime in that area. The 3.5-inch barrel definitely takes a bite out of the .22 Magnum's velocity. You'll recall Jeff Cooper's famous comment about the 51 - that it was "mainly useful for signaling."
CCI Maxi-Mag HP
Test 1) 1087 FPS average, 133 FPS ext sprd, 37 FPS MAD
This seemed unsatisfactory so it was repeated.
Test 2) 1113 FPS average, 163 FPS ext sprd, 51 FPS MAD
Even worse!
Winch. HP
1057 FPS average, 60 FPS ext sprd, 20 FPS MAD
I've never chronographed Stingers from a pistol. Also your comment about the 60-4 is "duly noted," and I tend to agree, but again, that gun was not available when I bought the 51. It's a great gun, but ammo is bulky and heavy compared to .22 Magnum. I intended to carry the 51 and a box of cartridges as part of a "survival kit" while hunting. I was trying to keep weight and bulk to a minimum.
CCI Maxi-Mag HP
Test 1) 1087 FPS average, 133 FPS ext sprd, 37 FPS MAD
This seemed unsatisfactory so it was repeated.
Test 2) 1113 FPS average, 163 FPS ext sprd, 51 FPS MAD
Even worse!
Winch. HP
1057 FPS average, 60 FPS ext sprd, 20 FPS MAD
I've never chronographed Stingers from a pistol. Also your comment about the 60-4 is "duly noted," and I tend to agree, but again, that gun was not available when I bought the 51. It's a great gun, but ammo is bulky and heavy compared to .22 Magnum. I intended to carry the 51 and a box of cartridges as part of a "survival kit" while hunting. I was trying to keep weight and bulk to a minimum.
Green Frog
Member
I have to admit that the 22 Magnum is the only caliber for which S&W ever chambered a revolver and I have never had experience shooting. Nothing against them you understand, just never came across one and never really had the desire to search too hard. I will say though, that most of the complaints I've heard here and elsewhere about the 22 LR and Mag (other than wise cracks about lack of power) had to do with difficult extraction. Any time this has been a problem, it seems that it could be easily dealt with by a man with a little talent to polish or at most finish ream the chambers. The 22 Mag still ranks as something of a lightweight compared even to my beloved 32s and of course the 38 Special, but it still aint no slouch! Congrats on a nice little kit gun; I know you'll enjoy it. 
Froggie
PS Those smooth targets look right at home and will give you plenty to hold onto. Good choice!
Froggie
PS Those smooth targets look right at home and will give you plenty to hold onto. Good choice!
OP
Thanks, Froggie. This Model 51 is only the second one I've owned and will fill a void in my Kit Gun collection.
I don't have a Model 51, but I do have a Model 651-1 and after shooting lots of different brands of .22 Magnums, I've only experienced balky extraction with one particular load. That was Winchester Dynapoints. These are a 45 grain copper plated lead bullet with a very shallow dimple on the nose, and when I say they exhibited balky extraction, they just won't fall out of their own weight like most other loads I've tried. I have to pick them out of the chambers after operating the ejector rod. No signs of any extra force being required on the ejector rod, by the way.
I suspect those Dynapoints are a really hot load, but haven't chronographed them yet.
You asked if anyone else liked the Model 51. I have two love them both. One is a flat latch.
I had this one. Shot fine. Extracted fine.
Ammo was too expensive for my taste. Didn't seem to be able to do much with it that I couldn't just as easily do with a HV 22LR. The magnum may be great as a varmint cartridge in a long gun for shooting at longer distances, but for pistol distances it just seemed like a lot more noise and flash for very little benefit to me. YMMV
I sold it on GunBroker for $650...
Ammo was too expensive for my taste. Didn't seem to be able to do much with it that I couldn't just as easily do with a HV 22LR. The magnum may be great as a varmint cartridge in a long gun for shooting at longer distances, but for pistol distances it just seemed like a lot more noise and flash for very little benefit to me. YMMV
I sold it on GunBroker for $650...
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Texas Star
US Veteran
I think Winchester got the DynaPoint idea from Australia, where they're used on big hares. I think they may be the best .22 for larger animals that you'd hunt with a .22. Supposed to expand well and go deep.
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What a great trail gun. Congrats on a fine purchase.
Larry from Bend
Member
It's a beauty and a fine trail companion. It would be prudent tp pack hearing protection.
I've got a 34-1 that's traveled a zillion miles with me on motorcycles, horses, ATVs and on foot. I wore it on every Elk hunt for 20+ years. I have shot dozens and dozens of Fool Hens with it -- finally quit because no one enjoyed eating them.
I've also got a 17-0 and a 18-4 -- had the 17 since 1971. Never an extraction problem with any of them. Yeah that short barrel is hard on velocity. I have a 5 1/2" Ruger SS that does right @ 1300 fps with 40 grain WW HPs and the mag. cylinder (the only round that I've found that it likes). Always thought the 22 mag in a revolver was a bit better that the 22 HV long rifle in a rifle.
I've got a 2" Model 60 with Adj. sights that kinda fills the same bill and I carry it when fishing during rattlesnake season. It's not as handy a package as the 34, however -- because of the ammo. Besides, 22 birdshot kills our Prairie Rattlers just as dead as 38 Special shot shells.
I've got a 34-1 that's traveled a zillion miles with me on motorcycles, horses, ATVs and on foot. I wore it on every Elk hunt for 20+ years. I have shot dozens and dozens of Fool Hens with it -- finally quit because no one enjoyed eating them.
I've also got a 17-0 and a 18-4 -- had the 17 since 1971. Never an extraction problem with any of them. Yeah that short barrel is hard on velocity. I have a 5 1/2" Ruger SS that does right @ 1300 fps with 40 grain WW HPs and the mag. cylinder (the only round that I've found that it likes). Always thought the 22 mag in a revolver was a bit better that the 22 HV long rifle in a rifle.
I've got a 2" Model 60 with Adj. sights that kinda fills the same bill and I carry it when fishing during rattlesnake season. It's not as handy a package as the 34, however -- because of the ammo. Besides, 22 birdshot kills our Prairie Rattlers just as dead as 38 Special shot shells.
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OP
Not sure I have ever seen one before. I really like it with the smooth targets. Great! Now I have something else to add to my list of wants. Thanks heaps.
Have a 51 that I really like. Got it from a fine gentleman at the symposium last year in Dallas.
OP
I think I remember that one. 
Donald Paul
Member
I have 2. One is a flat latch. Ive heard the flat latches are uncommon. True?
papicker61
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I have an early flat latch Model 51 round butt Kit Gun that I acquired about 20 years ago. I never shot it but bought it because of the limited production run of only 600 round butt models ever being produced. This post has inspired me to dig up a box of .22 Mags and try it out.
Combat_Diver
US Veteran
Back in the late 80s I picked up a 4" 651 to go along with my 5.5" Single Six convertible and Marlin 783. Loved the performance of the .22 WMR but as with life only still have the Ruger.
CD
CD
Cal44
Member
I have a 650 I got a few years back.
Good shooter and accurate.
It has a 3" bull barrel and fixed sights.
After shooting 100 rounds or so, powder residue builds up and I start having harder extraction.
I plan to bring a cleaning kit with a brass brush and mop to the range with me from now on.
Perhaps I can find a cleaner shooting ammo. But you can't shop for different brands and usually have to shoot what you can find these days.
Good shooter and accurate.
It has a 3" bull barrel and fixed sights.
After shooting 100 rounds or so, powder residue builds up and I start having harder extraction.
I plan to bring a cleaning kit with a brass brush and mop to the range with me from now on.
Perhaps I can find a cleaner shooting ammo. But you can't shop for different brands and usually have to shoot what you can find these days.
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KFW
Member
Kit guns really neat guns. I have a Pre model 34 and it is a lot of fun to shoot. If you can find the ammo, 22 mag is a blast to shoot. Beautiful gun and the grips look really nice, congrats.
I love mine, 1972ish, still have to get it out to the range! Good pick up there!
DB404
Member
I have had two model 51s and a no dash 651. The most accurate round in all 3 was the Winchester 40 gr hollow point load. All were accurate although the 651 was unusually so. Frequently under an inch at 25 yards with the Winchester ammo. Never chronographed any of them. I used them as companion sidearms when big game hunting and enjoyed their size, weight and the small amount of space a box of 50 shells took up in the day pack. Eventually I retired them in favor of a 3" pre lock 60-10 in .357; same size, pretty much same weight. Ammo weighed more, but the bigger hole it left in things was important to me due to living in brownie country at the time. I usually had a .338 mag, 9.3x62 or 45-70 along when hunting. If just hiking or stream fishing, I would usually carry the 45-70 SRC Browning and either one of two model 29s or a 10mm Delta. Although those 6/51s were accurate, they seemed to be just as loud as the 60-10, and loud noises don't impress brownies. I kind of wish I had kept the 651 4". It shot so darn well. Every S&W rimfire revolver I've ever owned dumped empties easily until I began using Break Free CLP. Then they started getting sticky and occasionally needed to be poked out with a cleaning road, one at a time (please don't pound on the extractor rod). I'm not sure if the BF is indeed the cause, but I have been told it can get gummy with age. I'm guessing that Ed's Red might work better.
Best, Dave
Best, Dave
