model 59

[TTSH]

Oh no, I meant that even in that condition, as a collector item, I didn't think the price was that good. They're not rare, they're not highly-prized. About the only thing you could say is that they're generally in "well-used" condition. But yeah--somebody will eventually pay that for one, or the seller will come down a bit.

If I am reading the completed auctions correctly, the last two blued NIB Model 59 pistols on GB sold for $1,200 each. There is a definite premium market out there for 1st Gen S&W pistols in very high (ideally unfired in original factory box w/everything) condition. You may not be prizing them, but someone else out there obviously is.

But as a real beater of a range gun? Easily tops the fun-per-dollar charts.

Now there you've got the advantage on me because I know absolutely nothing about beater range guns. I don't own a single one. Dear old Dad (R.I.P.) would turn over in his grave if I ever even talked about a Smith & Wesson firearm that way, let alone owned one.

I may be missing a lot of fun, but I don't want dear old Dad coming back from the grave to haunt me.

 

[filipows]

To further the analogy

The 63 Corvette was an innovative design, first production four wheel independent suspension. True the available drum brakes weren't the best, but they were the best available at the time. Likewise the 59 was an innovative design and led the way for other innovative products.

BTW if you have ever driven an 63 Corvette the iconic "Split Widow" is a real pain. it went away in 64.

FWIW, a 427 wasn't available in the '63 Corvette. All '63's came through with various versions of the 327.

Having said that, the Model 59 was innovation for its time. Judging it by today's standards is very much like judging the 63 Corvette to a current Stingray.


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[Faulkner]

I have small hands and always found them "blocky" feeling. I much prefer the 915.

They are "blocky" with any sized hands . . . and people complain about a Glock. The 59 cornered the market on poor ergonomics.

 

[Wise_A]

If I am reading the completed auctions correctly, the last two blued NIB Model 59 pistols on GB sold for $1,200 each. There is a definite premium market out there for 1st Gen S&W pistols in very high (ideally unfired in original factory box w/everything) condition. You may not be prizing them, but someone else out there obviously is.

Was the gun in question truly NIB, boxed, etc? Or was it just a gun in somebody's collection in good shape? All I heard was the latter.

Where's it for sale? If it's on Gunbroker, then there's a premium because it's marketed to a much larger audience. If it's in a local shop, shave a big chunk off that number.

And all that's presuming the sale actually completed.

Now there you've got the advantage on me because I know absolutely nothing about beater range guns. I don't own a single one. Dear old Dad (R.I.P.) would turn over in his grave if I ever even talked about a Smith & Wesson firearm that way, let alone owned one.

I may be missing a lot of fun, but I don't want dear old Dad coming back from the grave to haunt me.

Take a perfectly good Smith and Wesson, stick it in a holster, and then pull it out. Repeat 8400 times.

What do you have now? Well, a bunch of finish wear on a great gun.

It's not going to command the same price that a clean example would--nor should it. And 95% of people are going to pass that gun right over because it's got a bunch of holster wear. They don't know anything about the internals. For all they know, it could be unfired.

It's become a beater. It's got a big ol' 25-50% off sticker on it in the form of a little missing finish. You can pick it up for cheap, and enjoy shooting it without worrying about putting a mark on a pristine gun. Wanna holster it? Go ahead. Wanna put 5000 rounds through it because it's so great to shoot? Be my guest.

These guns are great.

As for range gun--well, the 59 is, let's face it, obsolete. Its drop-safety is questionable. There are other guns in its price range that are better. There are smaller guns, guns with better triggers, and so on. If we're carrying a gun for protection, there are better choices to make. Sure, a Colt 1908 Pocket Hammerless works as well today as it did over a hundred years ago--but today's .380s are smaller, and modern guns that size fire 9mm (or larger, and carry as many or more cartridges).

That doesn't make the 59 useless--it just makes it a gun to be enjoyed. Most guns that we buy are like that. What real practical use do I have for...well, 90% of my collection? None! But damn if I don't enjoy them.

 

[TTSH]

Was the gun in question truly NIB, boxed, etc? Or was it just a gun in somebody's collection in good shape? All I heard was the latter.

Where's it for sale? If it's on Gunbroker, then there's a premium because it's marketed to a much larger audience. If it's in a local shop, shave a big chunk off that number.

And all that's presuming the sale actually completed.

The Model 59 in question is in a local shop in the Boston area... not on Gunbroker. That particular shop has 244 used guns for sale as we speak. None of the used guns there are ever displayed in their factory boxes and I didn't ask. There are no visible signs of wear or use. It looks unfired, but who knows? The original owner is no longer with us to tell.

Anyway, enough of this. I think we've both made our points in regard to the Model 59 and how we see it today. No point in further repeating.

 

[Wise_A]

Nah, we're on the same page. I like me sum revolvers with no turn marks, that sort of thing. They definitely warrant the prices some of them command--to have a gun, and not shoot it, is rare. Especially in the case of the 59--it was popular, but a lot of that popularity was police-use. Cops are just about as hard on their guns as cowboys.

In other words, I'm not poo-poohing the price tags some pristine guns get. They're worth it...but no, not to me. I can respect the price without paying it.

But those scratched-up shooters deserve some love, too! My hands-down best gun, if I had to pick one all-arounder, is a K-38 Target Masterpiece that someone let live in a holster for a few decades. I've considered having it refinished, but (A) I don't think I'd trust anyone with such a super shooter, and (B) I can't stop shooting it for long enough to have that done!

Some people hear "beater" and "truck-gun" and "worn" and think it's a put-down--it ain't!

 

[plmcrzy67]

thanks everyone for your response's. The good, the bad and the ugly are most appreciated...............Mark

 

[loeman]

I admit, I did not read all the back and forth regarding the Model 59 in this thread. All I will say is that the Md 59 is a very important gun in the history of S&W and American handguns (see SCSW) I bought one just for that reason and I'm very happy to have done so.

 

[mjzman]

Trying to bring back a 45 year old memory...
Wasn't there an issue with the Model 59 shortly after they came out. Briefly taken out of service or recalled for modification or something? Seems like it was a big story in all the gun magazines of the time, then after six months or a year all was well. I cannot remember what the problem was supposed to have been.

 

[TTSH]

Trying to bring back a 45 year old memory...
Wasn't there an issue with the Model 59 shortly after they came out. Briefly taken out of service or recalled for modification or something? Seems like it was a big story in all the gun magazines of the time, then after six months or a year all was well. I cannot remember what the problem was supposed to have been.

Oh, yes. Much has been spoken and written about the general "unreliability" and "jamomatic" nature of the Model 59. Remember Phat Phil Engeldrum? And his infamous "Handgun Tests" magazines? His 1979 issue trashed the Model 59 to an almost legendary degree. I still have a copy of it around here somewhere.

The truth is apparently a little less dramatic and less widespread than Phat Phil's magazine would have you believe. I can't speak from personal experience, but at least some Model 59 pistols were apparently not reliable out of the box, especially when using hollow point ammunition. Some have said that even after expert gunsmithing and many tries, a few Model 59's still could not be made to work reliably.

The problems were eventually ironed out in late production Model 59 pistols and in the subsequent 2nd & 3rd Gen versions. It's why I waited until nearly the end of Model 59 production to buy one.

 

[digiroc]

A Piece of History ...

... the Md 59 is a very important gun in the history of S&W and American handguns (see SCSW) I bought one just for that reason and I'm very happy to have done so.

As a historical handgun the Model 59 is an important bit of history as the first of the "Wonder Nines". I found one very good condition in a Mom & Pop gunshop and bought it for under $300.

Not a good photo, but a good gun

I don't carry it or even shoot it, it resides in my gun safe to be admired as the start of something good. I've even bought a brand new 5946 (from Cabellas) which remains unfired as the other end of the evolution of the double stack "Wonder Nines".

For range and carry use I have a couple of 915's that I prize as useful examples of 3G Smiths.

digiroc

 

[BB57]

I guess I'm a "moderate" when it comes to the Model 59.

On the one hand I appreciate its history, its status as one of the original wonder nines, and its barrel locking system. I might some day be tempted to buy one of my own just for general interest reasons.

On the other hand, the grip is blocky, the trigger reach is too long, and as someone said above, it's "generally" reliable.

And of course, my general thoughts on the Wonder Nines, coming from a 1911 back ground, is that they offered very little that the Browning Hi Power did not. I still think that way. With 13 and 15 round magazines, good triggers (once you remove the magazine safety), and the option of either the standard single action or SFS systems, the Hi Power is tough to beat in the Model 59's size and weight range. In fact, in a used Model 59's price range the FEG P9 still beats the Model 59 hands down. The DA feature just does't bring enough to the table to make it a Hi Power killer.

Now, don't get me wrong, I do carry a S&W 6906 in the summer months and I actually like it. It's light, compact, and has a decent grip, a suitably short trigger reach and a DA trigger pull that is light enough to be useable - all things the Model 59 doesn't offer.

 

[N4KVE]

"Do you know what's a really bloody miserable car to drive? A 1963 split-window 427 Corvette.

That would be difficult, since the largest Corvette engine from the factory in 1963 was the fuelie 327. The 427 wasn't offered in the Corvette until 1966. And anyone who would install a 427 in a 63 split window would heavily decrease it's value. But I do agree, the metal S&W guns are a reliable bargain compared to new Sig's, & other plastic guns. GARY