Model 625 Performance Center & H.R. 218

[carl3989]

Went for my yearly requalification for H.R. 218 (Ret. P.O. CCP through out the US) my 625 for revolver and my Sig 1911 for semi auto. Was using white box Winchester 230 gr, unfortunately 7 rounds failed to fire. 5 in the 625 and 2 in the 1911. The 1911 was not problematic because the magazine always has a couple of spares. However the 625 moon clips don't permit permit easy replacement of an unfired round. Partly my fault in that I failed to carry more than the required 50 rounds in moon clips. So I basically lost 5 shots, luckily I still shot an 82 and passed. If you look closely the unfired rounds appear not to have as deep an indent as the others. I usually fire reloads problem free. Qualification rules mandate factory ammunition. What say you?

 

[Ed45]

Have the springs been replaced (lightened) in either or both?

 

[carl3989]

Yea,

I did go to a Wolff spring in the 625 but not the 1911.

 

[Ed45]

By chance do you use Federal primers in your re-loads? All my light triggers like Federal primers; there is a substantial difference in primer hardness. Might want to replace the 1911 springs.

 

[carl3989]

Good diagnosis..

By chance do you use Federal primers in your re-loads? All my light triggers like Federal primers; there is a substantial difference in primer hardness. Might want to replace the 1911 springs.

Yes I do use Federal primers.

 

[Dave T]

Ed, the OP said he was using WW white box.

I've heard any number of reports of WW white box 45 ACP causing problems. That's a lot of mis-fires, particularly in a 1911 style firearm. Pick better factory ammo the next time.

When I did my LEOSA qualification in December I shot the auto part with the Glock that rattles around in the truck and the revolver part with a 1937 38/44 HD. What a hoot!

Dave

 

[carl3989]

Thanks Dave

Ed, the OP said he was using WW white box.

I've heard any number of reports of WW white box 45 ACP causing problems. That's a lot of mis-fires, particularly in a 1911 style firearm. Pick better factory ammo the next time.

When I did my LEOSA qualification in December I shot the auto part with the Glock that rattles around in the truck and the revolver part with a 1937 38/44 HD. What a hoot!

Dave

I'll definitely use other ammo next time.

 

[Maximumbob54]

I have never used WWB in my 625-3 but have used it for years before reloading in my 1911’s. I never had a problem with it. It’s good to know either quality has taken a dive or I was just that lucky. Anyone want to share what factory ammo they would take to something important like a qualification?

 

[KurtC]

In recent years, I have seen all kinds of problems with WWB .45 ammo. Light primer strikes, underpowered loads, etc. I switched to Federal AE, which works flawlessly in both autos and revolvers.

 

[MifflinKid]

Carl3989, for your 625, try replacing the stock firing pin with a longer after market one. I had some problems with my 625 using my reloads assembled with the harder CCI primers.

I installed an Apex Tactical XP Ignition Kit https://apextactical.com/store/product-info.php?pid4.html. Solved that problem.

 

[cjw3]

I went for my LEOSA qual in April.

I take two revolvers and two semi's.....plus extra ammo.

You never know.

 

[David Sinko]

I use a lot of Winchester primers when loading .45 ACP for my three 625s and two Glock 21s. I presume that they factory load the same primers they sell as components. Or are they different? I never have any problems with their primers. My guess is that your springs are too light.

Dave Sinko

 

[da gimp]

the only problem I've ever had with WW primers

is that our Dillon 550 reloader doesn't like em nearly as much as it does CCI's. The WW's seem to be a little out of round or oversized sometimes. Did you put a lighter mainspring in your 1911? In this months issue of the American Rifleman, there is an exc article on dealing with the problems of a 1911. Got our issue this week.

 

[Dale53]

Carl3989;
Primers that do not fire nearly always show "light strikes". Fired primers back out of the cases, then pressure shoves the cases back, shoving the primers flush. That action causes deeper firing pin indentations in the fired cases. THAT is normal.

However, I would first check the main spring strain screw just to be sure. It should be tightened firmly.

Since you had misfires in your 1911, also, I suggest it is an ammo problem. I would suggest Federal factory for your qualification as Federal primers are known to be softer (they are my chosen brand for everyday use as well as self defense ammo).

You have learned two lessons with your near misfortune. Always fire enough of the chosen ammo to be certain it is compatible with your guns. Second, ALWAYS take extra ammunition.

I am also a fan of Apex Tactical's "extra length" firing pins. They are my choice for my two 625's as well as my daily carry 642 and my Performance Center 629 Light Hunter (which was plagued by misfires until I replaced the springs and firing pin).

As something else to consider - I am NOT a fan of "too light" actions on Smith revolvers. I use Jerry Miculek's spring kits (Bang.com) but set the double action at 9.0 lbs and single action at 3.0 pounds for sure strike on any major company primer, including Winchester's. I use a Lyman trigger pull gauge (electronic) to check both single and double action when setting them up. This is considerably lighter than factory issue but works with most anything I run through the revolvers.

A thought or two...

Dale53

 

[617X10]

I'd at least call Winchester and give them a complaint. Misfires could be dangerous to the new shooters out there. Be sure to give them the lot number if you kept the box.

 

[carl3989]

Interesting

Carl3989, for your 625, try replacing the stock firing pin with a longer after market one. I had some problems with my 625 using my reloads assembled with the harder CCI primers.

I installed an Apex Tactical XP Ignition Kit https://apextactical.com/store/product-info.php?pid4.html. Solved that problem.

I have dvds by Jerry Miculak showing S&W revolver disassembly. Unfortunately they cover the external firing pins. Could you suggest where I could learn about the internal firing pin?

 

[Fishslayer]

I've heard any number of reports of WW white box 45 ACP causing problems. That's a lot of mis-fires, particularly in a 1911 style firearm. Pick better factory ammo the next time.

Dave

They've been having problems lately. They're moving their operations & I understand the Union's not happy about it.

If it was just the 625 I'd say the primers look exactly like my friend's did when the strain screw backed out of his light springed 629.

But two guns? Gotsta be the ammo.

 

[Gun-runner]

Just apply for your pistol permit and be done with this B.S.

 

[carl3989]

Huh?

Just apply for your pistol permit and be done with this B.S.

What are you referring to, please illuminate me.

 

[BUFF]

I will second the red box Federal American Eagle ammo. My department shoots it for training ammo in 9mm, .40, .45 and it is extremely consistent and reliable. Around here it is priced similarly to Winchester white box.