Model 64 Snub Questions

[JFOHIO]

Zebulon:
I would like to find a 64 with a 2" barrel that looks like yours shown over the targets (picture on the left). To my eye that barrel is certainly heavier and more straight sided than the one pictured on the right. To me it looks the same as the picture posted by Photoman44. I would also assume that the heavier barrel is thicker at the muzzel end than the one pictured on the right. Please confirm. I asked the question regarding 2" Standard" and 2" Tapered" because both are mentioned in the S. C. & S & W under the M64 write up, and I didn't know if there were in fact three stlye barrels or just two. They also mention 3" and 4" Heavy barrels, but not specifically 2". Another thought - If there are, in fact, no 2" Heavy barrels, then maybe the difference we see is "standard" vs "Tapered".
(are we having fun yet?)
JFOHIO

 

[hiram2005]

Maybe I'm nuts too, but I see a difference in Photomans and dbs barrels!

 

[watchmanjimg]

Perhaps they'd be so kind as to post a muzzle shot of their respective firearms. This would shed some light on things, wouldn't it?

 

[Zebulon]

Maybe I'm nuts too, but I see a difference in Photomans and dbs barrels!

Hiram....You are indeed nuts, and I mean that with deep respect. They're different to me...always have been, but then again, I don't claim to have the answers any longer....just the questions. Seems the Pros have a harder time with them (the questions) than the facts. Being profoundly Conservative in my politics, I have a difficult time with perspectives being reality. I respect and understand perspectives, but Smith & Wesson does determine reality. I'd just like to know what it is, and I'd be happy to silence myself and fade away.....HB Zebulon... I've been married for many years...I know what it's like to be dead wrong.........

 

[Zebulon]

Zebulon:
I would like to find a 64 with a 2" barrel that looks like yours shown over the targets (picture on the left). To my eye that barrel is certainly heavier and more straight sided than the one pictured on the right. To me it looks the same as the picture posted by Photoman44. I would also assume that the heavier barrel is thicker at the muzzel end than the one pictured on the right. Please confirm. I asked the question regarding 2" Standard" and 2" Tapered" because both are mentioned in the S. C. & S & W under the M64 write up, and I didn't know if there were in fact three stlye barrels or just two. They also mention 3" and 4" Heavy barrels, but not specifically 2". Another thought - If there are, in fact, no 2" Heavy barrels, then maybe the difference we see is "standard" vs "Tapered".
(are we having fun yet?)
JFOHIO

There should be a S&W Authority on the Forum to help us wade through this issue. Please Guys, I know there are some great S&W minds here...Help us out......Zeb

 

[ladder13]

There should be a S&W Authority on the Forum to help us wade through this issue. Please Guys, I know there are some great S&W minds here...Help us out......Zeb

There's a "nut" for sure, his name is Smithnut. Where he be? If he don't have it, it never was.

 

[safdt17]

way to go guys...now I want one.

 

[photoman]

I have a 64-2 w/a 2" barrel. It kind of looks a bit tapered, but it's so short, it's hard to tell for sure. The previous pics posted here do look a bit different to me but what do I know?!

I had some custom work done on mine by a gunsmith in Glendale, Azrizona; chamfored charge holes, bobbed hammer, rounded/polished trigger (it was the narrow, groved trigger) and a DA action job. 4-5" DA groups @ 15 yards. (I think it would do better with a better shooter!)What a sweet piece it is!

...and where are the pics?!?!

 

[photoman]

OK... went and got mine out of the safe... Measuring with an outside micrometer at the 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock position... It measures .808" at the base of the barrel and .638" at the muzzle. From the side it looks like a straight barrel, but from the bottom it's evident that there is a taper.

 

[NOTREDAME]

I can't take it any longer, I'm going to lose my eye sight squinting at those gunbroker ads to see it they are tapered barrels or the elusive heavy barrel. Here is a Mod 64 and a 64-6, both tapered.

[I

MG]http://

 

[Zebulon]

Here are a couple misleading photos of my Wifes' 64......I love this stuff.....

All photos of the same gun.......Zebulon

 

[JFOHIO]

Here is a new thought for today. The Standard Catalog of S &W (III), page 225, M64 Section, Engineering and Production Changes, states:
"1973: Heavy barrel only"
Are we to infer that:
1. In 1973 2" guns were produced only with heavy barrels; or
2. In 1973 no 2" M64's were produced.
What do you think

JFOHIO

 

[Zebulon]

My guess would be that S&W chose to build ONLY 2" HB for that year. It would also remove any doubt that there are in fact, BOTH Regular (Tapered) AND Heavy Barreled 2" K framed Model 10 and 64 guns. I'm a happy man! Zeb

 

[watchmanjimg]

It's a theory, but the fact remains that we have no photographic evidence that there's more than one type of 2" K-frame barrel.

 

[Zebulon]

How would you interpret the S&W literature? Not a challenge, but why an entry making note of something that doesn't exist? If it doesn't exist, it doesn't warrant a notation. Why also the notations concerning "regular" barrel if there is a barrel considered "not or un regular"? We need either of two persons to arrive on scene...One), someone versed in Logic, or Two), someone who actually knows Smith and Wesson well enough to speak with some authority to the question. Zeb

 

[watchmanjimg]

How would you interpret the S&W literature? Not a challenge, but why an entry making note of something that doesn't exist? If it doesn't exist, it doesn't warrant a notation. Why also the notations concerning "regular" barrel if there is a barrel considered "not or un regular"? We need either of two persons to arrive on scene...One), someone versed in Logic, or Two), someone who actually knows Smith and Wesson well enough to speak with some authority to the question. Zeb

Not a challenge either, but one minute you're guessing and the next apparently saying that we need someone versed in logic to weigh in. I can only conclude that this doesn't mean me.

Can we not interpret JFOHIO's quote from the literature to mean that the only change to the 64 in 1973 was the introduction of the heavy barrel (which unquestionably exists in 3" and 4" versions), in other words the 64-1? Here's some discussion on other sites:

Smith & Wesson model changes
Tell me about the S&W 64... - TheFiringLine Forums

You can decide for yourself how conclusive this is, but to me there's nothing in either JFOHIO's quote or on the foregoing websites to suggest that there was a 2" heavy barrel.

 

[Zebulon]

I'm not real pleased with the way this appears to be going and I've exhibited as much grace as I know how. I'm old, I'm patient and always open to being taught. Note the following quotation from the thread you provided from Sam 06....I'm going to do my best to leave this alone and not allow it to turn into an internet debate over nothing....My sincere advice to the OP is to do what I am commited to doing....Shop around, and if you find what "you think" to be a heavy barreled 2" 64, buy it, shoot it, sit in front of the TV, read a book and rub it with a soft cloth...but don't tell a soul what you have.... Best to all....Zebulon

"You got a nice Pistola there for a good price. The model 64 S&W is a S/S Model 10. They came in several configurations and I think the one you have is a good one. You could get them with the heavy barrel or the Thin barrel 2,3 or 4". You have the thin barrel 4". It should have a nice trigger by the way most did.

From the S&W book:

Model 64, .38 SPL Military and Police Stainless Introduced in 1970 with the tapered 4" Pinned barrel square butt K-Frame.

Yours was made before 1982 when they deleted the pinned barrel.

The 3rd addition puts the following value on them:
ANIB $400
EXC $285
VG $250
Good $215

But those are subjective and the market sets the real price. Here are the change numbers:

64 no dash 1970
64-1 1972- intro Hvy BBl
64-2 1977- Gas ring change
64-3 1977-Gas ring change on 4"
64-4 1988- New yoke retention
64-5 1988- Hammer nose bushing and yoke retention on Heavy barrel
64-6 1998- MIM hammer, floating firing pin, internal change
64-7 2002- Key lock
64-8 2004- 2 piece barrel

Like all K Frame S&W it is +P rated. In fact the OKSP had them made in 357 Mag which led to the M65. Yes you can trust your life to it, Plenty of cops did and maybe still do.

PM me if you want me to look up the Serial number for you. Good score and I think your sister will like it. If not send it to me and I will find it a home at little or no cost to you
__________________
The two most abundant elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. "

Note the 64-1 Revision....I know, maybe it referred to the 2", maybe not...See free counsel offered above....Zeb, Out

 

[watchmanjimg]

Zeb, I'm sorry if I offended you. I thought we were just having a friendly discussion and exchanging information, not ruffling each other's feathers. I'll leave it alone for now.

 

[Zebulon]

I'm not offended at all. I do believe we've come to the point where both perception and opinion have pretty much been exhausted. The mention of logic was an appeal to those who know the difference between opinion and perception, an appeal to those who have the honest ablity to do the hard work of examining documents and be able to reason through them. It is honestly beyond my ability. I'd like to have an answer to this, but it will require one greater than I, with more understanding, or "official insight", than I have. I'm a bit disappointed that with all the expertise available here on the S&W Forum, we've failed to catch the eye of those who would be able to clear it all up. In the end, it's not a matter of opinion or perception, but of FACT. Smith and Wesson knows exactly what the answer to the question is. I thought maybe we'd connect with somebody who had access to the reality of what S&W built, or what they didn't build. All I have to offer is ignorance....(and hope... ) BTW, there is a Forum member (Black_Sheep) who has a 2" 10 that I would be willing to sell my blood to score.....He and I have had this conversation concerning the HB issue about Model 10's. You would think that someone here who had a decent friendship with Mr. Roy Jinks would come to our rescue. I'd hate to think I'll have to go to the grave as an uninformed idiot who is prone to believe a lie. C'Mon you Big Guys....help us out here.......Zebuloney

 

[pharmer]

Only 5 days late, but not a dollar short. 64-4. Joe

 

[ladder13]

Zeb, I put in a request on the SWCA side of this Forum for someone to comment on this topic. Hopefully we'll hear from the experts.

 

[Zebulon]

Zeb, I put in a request on the SWCA side of this Forum for someone to comment on this topic. Hopefully we'll hear from the experts.

Thanks Mike...I don't know who the heavy hitters are in this World, but I'm thankful for your efforts. This thing really has me baffled!

Great example pharmer....My first 64 was a NY-1 in that configuration...Very Nice.....Zebulon

 

[ladder13]

I was hoping Smithnut would comment, but he appears to be awol.

Never checked the dash on my NY-1 but it must be a 4, the serial number is pretty close to Joe's.

 

[photoman]

Not that it clears anything up, but the question is, "Why would Smith & Wesson make a 'heavy' barrel for a 2" snub?"

The idea of making a light, standard and/or heavy barrel for a 2" gun just doesn't have a lot of face validity in my opinion.

 

[Zebulon]

Simple answer...so a guy who calls himself Zebulon could appear 40 years later to insist he likes that look over the taper. Those people knew things....

 

[Zebulon]

I don't have the answers to your questions but this thread needs a picture!

Photoman...I'm assuming this photo is an example rather than your personal pistol...correct? Would you say the barrel is tapered or straight? Until the experts confirm what S&W actually built, are we to assume that it's our perspective that changes from photo to photo? I've looked at over 50 images of both 2" 10's and 64's and there is still a distinct difference in my minds eye when I look at them.....What do you see? Zeb

 

[VictorLouis]

When I view my -2 from the top, the barrel clearly tapers from the frame to the muzzle. From the side, you really have to eyeball it in the light. The grind lines reveal a taper from the topstrap, sloping down to front sight. Mine has the .265 serrated, and it's going to stay that way.

 

[photoman]

Photoman...I'm assuming this photo is an example rather than your personal pistol...correct? Would you say the barrel is tapered or straight? Until the experts confirm what S&W actually built, are we to assume that it's our perspective that changes from photo to photo? I've looked at over 50 images of both 2" 10's and 64's and there is still a distinct difference in my minds eye when I look at them.....What do you see? Zeb

The measurements in post #39 are of that gun. The barrel is tapered. It looks non-tapered because the top rib of the barrel runs "downhill" but parallel to the taper. It's an optical illusion of sorts.

 

[Zebulon]

I'm ready to concede there is only one 2" Barrel on the 64 Snub then. It appears as though I simply liked the straight line I "perceived" in the photos and wanted to own what I believed I saw. I'm good...Thanks for all the help guys.....This has been fun. Zebulon

 

[hhb]

I bought a S&W Mod 64-2 in pristeen condition a few years ago in a local shop marked "CDCXXXX (California Department of Corrections).