Modified guns

[Oyeboteb]

Here is a modified Victory that was the carry gun for the SSA FBI Las Vegas office in the late 40's through 1960's. If this one could talk....
Chuck

There is something nice about a 3 Inch Barrel, especially for IWB or Shoulder Holster.

 

[Oyeboteb]

I have only modifed three Guns, all Revolvers.

Two, were in the late 1980s, and, this one, seen below, was a couple years ago.

It was a mundane S&W Model 10-6, 4 inch Barrel, Square Butt.

I shortened the Barrel to about 3 inches, made and affixed a new Half-Moon Front Sight, rounded the Grip Frame, and, Bobbed the Hammer, checkered the Back Strap, and, modified some old 'beater' Victory Stocks to fit.

It is very nice, very agreeable, carries well in front IWB, and, I later found out that S&W had made and offered 3 Inch Bull Barrel Model 10s, but, I had not known that at the time or I might have just got one of those instead.


Image is from when I was experimenting with Black Powder ( and, also, 'Duplex' ) Loadings for .38 Special.

 

[Green Frog]

Hi Green Frog,

At the time, I had only some limited Firearms Experience, and, I do not know if I had even heard of Mr. Fitzgerald then to have had a name for the modifications I had done.

My initial reason for having the open Trigger Bow, was to facilitate operating the Revolver with alacrity, while wearing Riding Gloves, as I was riding my Motorcycle quite a lot in those days.

I shortened the Grip-Frame and bobbed the Hammer in order for the Revolver to be carried in Levi 501 Jeans or similar front Pocket, where, the front Pockets are not usually very deep or ample, and, the original Grip-Frame length was too long.

For me, for a J-Frame, ( or, if a Colt Detective Special ) the open Bow would be a big 'Plus' even without Riding Gloves, especially if in the Pocket Carry mode.

Just to muse a moment more, in a general way and not in reply to anything you had mentioned - I have of course heard or read all of the controversies about having an open Trigger Bow, and, I have noticed that no controversy has ever existed among anyone who had actually routinely carried and used such Revolvers, but, always, the controversy or nay-saying is limited to being a topic among those who have not.

I myself was comfortable with the condition from the beginning, and, I never came to know of any reason for me not to be entirely comfortable and satisfied with it.

Too, and, this also entered into my choice at the time - If one is routinely wearing a light tucked in Shirt, and, plain old traditional Levi 501s, and, is of a slender build, then, there are not many options for practical CCW, unless one elects a Pocket Carry mode, and, that was my choice then, and, it was always fine with me.

Thank you for this informative and well thought out response. I asked my question out of genuine interest, specifically about the efficiency vs gun protection of a pocket carry. Over the years I know of only a couple of ADs that have taken place that resulted in whole or in part due to a pocket carry specifically of a small revolver. In the two cases I am most familiar with, a hip pocket carry was utilized and damage to the Gluteus maximus ensued! I hasten to add that in neither case was there modification to the trigger guard of their respective revolvers noted in the reportage, and both occurred in local bars, suggesting the influence of adult beverages!

I guess my last question would be about the specifics of your pocket carry... can I assume you reserved your front, strongside pocket for this duty alone and left that pocket otherwise empty to insure that there would be no interference from other, extraneous items when "holstering" as well as withdrawing the revolver. Again, thanks for taking time to add to my/our knowledge base about effective concealed carries.

Best regards,
Green Frog

PS To friend MuleyGil: Sorry if this seems like thread drift, but I feel like the exploration of the "why" of gun alterations is what we are getting to here.

 

[Muley Gil]

"PS To friend MuleyGil: Sorry if this seems like thread drift, but I feel like the exploration of the "why" of gun alterations is what we are getting to here."

Actually, I think this discussion fits quite nicely with the topic.

 

[Oyeboteb]

Hi Dave Nash,


You've asked -

"Oyeboteb":

Your Model 36 exemplifies what this thread is all about. A "tool" crafted to meet the very specific needs (and personal preferences) of its owner.

Thank you!


It was a long time ago, and, done with such innocence...I just figured to make it suit my needs, and, it did.

I have several questions and they're all about the grips and the gripframe.

I can't tell from the picture but are you achieving the almost Bird'sHead forward sweep to its profile through the stocks you crafted or did you alter the frame in this regard when you shortened it?

It was a Square Butt Model, and, I cut out a pretty good section of the Grip Frame, and, bent the pieces then to form the shape it has now, and, I brazed it together, and, makde the little Stocks for it and inlaid the Brass 'diamonds'...they are held on with a conventional Stock Screw and escutcheaons.

I cut out some of the Grip Frame up a little ways from the bottom in order to shorten it.

If I had known how to Weld, I would have welded the Grip back together, but I do a lot of Brazing and I felt it would be strong enough, and, apparently, it has been.

It was really a very casual foray, which all tolled took a couple days off and on to do.

The Revolver had no finish and well worn when I got it, and, once done with my modifications, I Blued in it Molten Nitrate, so, for quite a while, it had quite a nice Blue, but eventually it all wore off.

Did you find that this shape aided you in the both the pointing/aiming of the revolver?

Not really...Lol...

I needed for it to fit into the front Pocket of regular Levi 501s.


It would shoot best with one's Middle Finger on the Trigger, but I always feared to get my then straight out index finger scorched or worse, if doing that.

Did you find that this shape aided you in the control of weapon during firing? Especially multiple shot firing?

Well, they are, or the grasp one has of it is, no worse really than that of, or than the Grip and Stocks of, any early Chiefs Special I suppose...maybe just a little worse, but not enough to feel critical about.

Are the stocks fitted on to (or partially around) the gripframe? (I know that your checkered backstrap is exposed.)

Fitted to...no overlap anywhere, the profile of the Walnut Stocks, is that of the Grip Frame.

Does the screw visible in one of the photos merely secure the stocks in the conventional (albeit lower) manner?
Or does that screw (and perhaps one on the other side) actually thread into the frame instead?

It is a conventional Screw, possibly the same screw and same escutcheons as had been in the stock S&W Stocks which were on it when I got it...

 

[Oyeboteb]

Thank you for this informative and well thought out response. I asked my question out of genuine interest, specifically about the efficiency vs gun protection of a pocket carry. Over the years I know of only a couple of ADs that have taken place that resulted in whole or in part due to a pocket carry specifically of a small revolver. In the two cases I am most familiar with, a hip pocket carry was utilized and damage to the Gluteus maximus ensued! I hasten to add that in neither case was there modification to the trigger guard of their respective revolvers noted in the reportage, and both occurred in local bars, suggesting the influence of adult beverages!

Hi Green Frog,


It is difficult for me to imagine how those mishaps occurred with Revolvers being Pocket Carried...or, I wish we knew the precise details of what happened, and, how it happened, in those instances.

I guess my last question would be about the specifics of your pocket carry... can I assume you reserved your front, strongside pocket for this duty alone and left that pocket otherwise empty to insure that there would be no interference from other, extraneous items when "holstering" as well as withdrawing the revolver.

Yes...exactly.

Strong side, front Pants Pocket, with it being a dedicated Pocket which is always kept clean and empty of anything else ( bot for a piece of folded in half Junk Mail or the likes ).

The little 'Lambchop' is light enough to where the Pocket of Levi or similar Jeans will hold up well enough, but it is really best to re-inforce the Pocket or to have one's Tailor or Seamstress or one's self, install a new Pocket made of stronger or more durable material.

I usually kept a folded piece of Junk Mail, between Revolver and outer Pocket, in order to eliminate any hint of 'profile' or Ghost-image occuring in the fabric over time.

This did not interfere in any way with drawing.

Again, thanks for taking time to add to my/our knowledge base about effective concealed carries.

Best regards,
Green Frog

 

[Green Frog]

Hi Green Frog,


It is difficult for me to imagine how those mishaps occurred with Revolvers being Pocket Carried...or, I wish we knew the precise details of what happened, and, how it happened, in those instances.

Yes...exactly.

Strong side, front Pants Pocket, with it being a dedicated Pocket which is always kept clean and empty of anything else ( bot for a piece of folded in half Junk Mail or the likes ).

O'teb,

Thanks again for taking the time to share first hand knowledge on this subject. I don't know but assume that some other object(s) was/were in the pockets in question. You will also note in my posting the phrase, "adult beverages."

I guess one of those "repair pockets" I see in fabric shops would be helpful here in view of your comments. I've even read somewhere where one of the old-time western lawmen carried a pair of cut down single actions in specially sewn leather hip pockets. I bet they made for uncomfortable seating though, and I like your solution a lot better.

Thanks again for sharing!
Froggie

 

[6actual]

Got my modified 1917 back today. Here is a pictue.

Looks good, I have one Im thinkin about doing something similar. Who did the work?

 

[motocop]

Tom Kilhoffer swapped out the barrel. The bluing matched the old finish pretty well. Im going to shoot it and check the POI. The front sight came from S&W after I gave them a serial number from a 22-4 so they could check the build sheet and get a part number.

 

[6actual]

Tom Kilhoffer swapped out the barrel. The bluing matched the old finish pretty well. Im going to shoot it and check the POI. The front sight came from S&W after I gave them a serial number from a 22-4 so they could check the build sheet and get a part number.

I really like it, add a tyler t grip and your there! A very nice old school hand cannon.

 

[delta-419]

1917 Modification

Motocop, I really like that 1917 modification. The barrel to frame fit really looks professional. I suppose he had to shorten the ejector rod as I dont see a nob or was it replaced. Looks great!

 

[motocop]

The rod is the same length. He turned the knob down so it would fit into the shroud. A dab of cold blue. I think the threads are left hand and he didnt have another on hand. I may have a buddy re knurl it. I just put a set of Ken Driskill elk grips on it. Looks sweet. Im a 1911 guy and only have two revolvers but I really like this one. Also I need to thin the front sight down. The groove is something like .085 and the blade is .125. Im glad its pinned.