More auto rim cartridges

otis24

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I just read an article about certain ammo calibers that "are becoming obsolete". Among them are the .25 Aoto, .32 ACP, both understandable, and others like the .40 S&W and .45 GAP.

The author stated that the two most popular calibers are 9mm and .45 ACP. I know that a .45 Auto Rim is produced, but I don't see it commonly available. I would think that with the popularity of these two calibers, and with ammo producers already producing 9mm & .45, it wouldn't be too big of a stretch production-wise to make both of these calibers widely available in an auto-rim. I don't know anything about ballistics, but I could see a 9mm auto rim edging out .38 Special (Blasphemy! I know!).

I could also see the .40 S&W in an auto rim version being popular with revolver fans.

At the very least, revolver manufacturers might consider producing revolvers that can accept an auto cartridge without the use of a moon clip. An even better choice.
 
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I suspect the production processes between .45 ACP and AR are different enough such that cost efficiencies for producing the latter are non-existent.

There was/is a 9 mm "Auto Rim" called the Federal, which didn't exactly take off sales-wise. It came out at about the time of wholesale changeover to 9 mm semi-automatic pistols.

Both the out of production S & W model 547 and the current Charter Arms Bulldog can use 9 mm Parabellum without moon clips. And the latter is also available in .40 and .45. :)
 
Auto rim 9mm and 40's are a solution in search of a problem. There was a perfectly good reason for 45 auto rim when all of those 1917 Colt and S&W revolvers came onto the surplus market in the 1920's and people wanted to shoot them without the half moon clips. It's important to remember the reason why the 45ACP was chambered in revolvers. It wasn't because the 45ACP was a great improvement in performance. It was strictly logistical. They needed handguns for the war and they couldn't produce 1911's fast enough so Colt and Smith used tooling that was already up and running to make revolvers. The 45ACP was chambered in them so that they had a common caliber. After the war, the revolvers were quickly dumped and replaced with the auto. (Some were used into WW2, but they were not very common in Gov't use after 1920 or so.) Apologies to the moon clip fanboys out there but there isn't anything that a rimless auto cartridge can do in a revolver that isn't already being done better by a rimmed cartridge.
 
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/...Apologies to the moon clip fanboys out there but there isn't anything that a rimless auto cartridge can do in a revolver that isn't already being done better by a rimmed cartridge.

That's not entirely true.

I've been shooting the FBI's current (as well as the last 2) semi-auto pistol qualification course with a score of 49/50 on the QIT-99 target using various revolvers (3" Model 13, 2/2" Model 66, 2 1/2" and 3" 686 pluses, etc). I consistently dropped one point on the second part of the 7 yard stage:

"7 yards (18 rounds)...

– Starting with only 4 rounds in the gun, from the ready fire 4 rounds, conduct and emergency reload, then fire 4 more rounds in 8 seconds"

Target size and distance wasn't the issue, reload time was (and it's 33% less time than the otherwise similar ILEA stage). The end result is the 8th shot doesn't get fired until after the target is turning away.

That changed when I started using moon clips. A moon clip loaded with nice rounded profile hollow points, RNs or FMJs almost throws itself into the chamber and cuts about a second off the reload compared to a speed loader. That's enough additional time to shoot a clean 50/50 score.

There are other benefits.

- With a moon clip you will *never* end up with a case stuck under the ejector star. That's a time consuming jam to clear and one that is potentially fatal in a gun fight.

- if you are shooting on a public range your brass is easy to recognize and is 6 or 7 times faster to pick up.

- If you shoot on a turf surface the cases don't get lost in the grass.

- there's no need for speed loaders. Moon clips are also often more cost effective. For example moon clips for the S&W 625 (.45 ACP) cost about $2.50 each from TK Custom and they last pretty much forever.

- finally, I shoot .45 ACP in both semi autos and revolvers and the logistics of being able to shoot the same round in both types is a plus even for me, hand loading 2000 or so rounds at a time.

So...feel free to call me a moon clip fan boy, but you need to understand there are solid reasons for preferring moon clips.
 
Here in the US anything smaller than 9mm Luger is often considered to be inadequate for self defense. For example, while There are a half dozen or so loads for the 380 ACP using the 90 gr XTP that will meet the FBIs gel penetration standards in a 3.4" barrel, for the most part people regard it as inadequate for self defense use.

That's true in spades for the .32 ACP. With a 60 gr XTP it can meet the same penetration standard when fired in a similar 3.4" barrel, but the .32 ACP takes and even bigger velocity hit than the .380 ACP in a short barrel. That makes the .32 ACP unpopular in the US.

That's not the case in Europe where the .32 ACP / 7.65 Browning was used up until about 20 years ago as a police issue weapon. More European shooters have also not forgotten how fast and accurately a good shooter can fire something like a Walther PP in .32 ACP / 7.65 Browning compared to a PP in .380 ACP / 9mm Kurtz.

The mild recoil of the .32 ACP also makes it a good cartridge for a new shooting transitioning from .22 LR to larger center fire calibers.

If more people shot the .32 ACP for awhile before moving up to 9mm Luger or larger, there would be a lot more shooters who weren't flinching, anticipating recoil and generally struggling to stay anywhere near the 9 ring at even 5 yards on a B-27 target.
 
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