MORE ON "GUN SAFES"

[chief38]

I STARTED A NEW THREAD ON THIS TOPIC BECAUSE OF THE OF A FALSE SENSE OF SECURITY WE HAVE IN OUR "GUN SAFES".



I purchased a Liberty Presidential safe about 13 years ago. It is a beautiful "gun safe", and looks very impressive. It has 18 active 1 1/2" bolts, massive internal hinges, 3 re-lockers, a double lock, has gold plated accouterments, and is pretty enough to display in your den! The weight empty is about 1,000 pounds and holds 22 long guns & plenty of handguns. What I learned recently (there is a great video on you tube) is how fast a knowledgeable burglar can open it, in under 2 minutes! ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBhOjWHbD6M )

If I were to do it all again, I would NOT buy a "gun Safe". I would buy a used jewelery store safe and custom make the interior to my specifications. I would wind up with a safe that is far better rated for burglary, and much more fire proof. The jewelery safes are not as pretty as the so called gun safes, but ten times as strong! Since I keep it in an alarmed (central station) closet anyway, who cares how pretty it looks. I paid over $3,000.00 13 years ago, and for that money back then I could have had a REAL safe, but like most of us collectors, the eye appeal is sometimes the decision making factor.

NOW HERE IS THE BEST ADVISE I GAN GIVE!! What ever safe you wind up buying or already have, bolt it to the floor!!! Even if it weighs 2,000 pounds. If you find the you tube video, watch it and you will see that the burglars usually rock the safe back & forth until they get it on its back. Then they can get the leverage to pry it open very quickly. ANOTHER piece of advise is: now that you have your "gun safe" don't get the false sense of security that you can also keep the family jewels in there with complete security either. Small valuable things are better off kept in a more secure type of safe than your typical gun safe. I am not saying you shouldn't keep a few hundred bucks emergency cash or some credits cards and extra keys in there, but just don't walk around thinking that you can put all your valuables & cash in a safe that is more easily broken into than you want to believe.

chief38
Last edited by chief38; Today at 12:44 PM.
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[phatn8dog]

just my opinion, but i own a liberty safe also.its a lincoln series and its also pretty enough to put in your den. the difference is that prior to me, the previous owner used it as a jewelry safe for his home.his home was burglarized and the thieves tried like all getout to open this safe. it was found lying on its back with pry marks all around the door along with various cut marks and a broken off bolt throw... unpenetrated, but the relocker had activated.
i was able to obtain the safe through a friend of mine and since i am a fabricator by trade, the welding and refinishing required to bring it back to its former glory,wasnt really an issue for me.
i have every bit of faith in my safe as i would a new one....and feel like anything that i put in it is secure....

 

[phatn8dog]

saw the video and noticed that there were no bolts along the bottom of the safe door....dont know if that makes that big of a difference, but at the very least, that safe cant be compared to the quality of a liberty

 

[VonFatman]

IF...your gun safe is an older unit, and not a fire-rated unit...

ALSO...bolt it to the wall! Wall & Floor is the best.

I was broken into and the thief's had no luck on either...both were mega-dead bolted to the floor and the older one to the wall as well.

(do not drill holes in the back or side of your safe if fire rated...the holes will void the the "fire-resistance" warranty)

ALSO:
do not leave any safe on a PALLET!! As mentioned above by OP, it's toast if not DEAD-BOLTED down to the floor (concrete I hope).

TIP:
use 1/2" angle aluminum to keep the safe OFF concrete floor. It'll rust REAL bad. Cut aluminum angle to length of front and sides (if three sides are exposed). Rest safe on apex of the angle. This keeps the safe up (air gap between floor and bottom of safe) AND keeps a thief with a long hack-saw blade from being able to easily cut your dead-bolts.

Bob

 

[Kanewpadle]

There is some truth to this video but it is largely a scare tactic.

Yes, buy a good safe. First the thieves have to know that you have a gun safe. They have to know where it is. They have to have time to open it.

Most thieves don't carry or bring pry bars of that size unless they know you have a safe in your home. The safe used didn't have bolts around the entire door.

As I have stressed on other home security threads, alarms and safes are great. But home security starts outside the home.

Bolt the safe down and position it in a way to make it difficult to use a pry bar.

 

[84CJ]

I will go out on a limb here. Your Liberty Presidential safe cannot be pryed open in two min. You have a top of the line gun safe. Can it be defeated. YES! Dick hit the nail on the head. Also you presidential safe did not come from Lowes or any other chain store. The Liberty safe from lowes is cheap. Liberty never sees that safe. It comes in on a boat from China and streight to Lowes. YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR. I open safes as a hobby. But I open them so you cannot tell I have been in them. That takes a little time. But your safe is better than new when I finish.

All the major safe companies make safes that the above average criminal will not gain entry too. They also make models that can be opened in a matter of min. I think it is a real shame that Liberty and others would allow their name to be placed on some of these safes.

But I always like to tell people any safe is better than no safe at all.

 

[Alk8944]

Did any of you happem to watch to the very end, where it finally shows this was from Rogue Safe Company, Medford OR????

They were careful to not show you what brand safe they opened was, but did show other major brands to give you the idea that these were the POSs they were talking about? Not to mention that it appears that none of the locking bolts were set, not enough damage to the cabinet, and they didn't show the bolts after the door was opened so there is no way to determine if there was any damage to the door or bolts!

One safe company showing what a piece of crap another manufacturer's safe is. Don't take this video too seriously.

 

[qennis]

i agree...all safe companies make low end and high end safes.
you get what you pay for...most smash and grab robbers wont waist their time tring to get in to a safe. most home robberies last less than 7 minutes. a good test when buying a new safe is to try pulling out at the top of the door while pushing in at the bottom...low end safe doors will flex as you do this.
I own a browning safe made by pro steel it is 6' tall, 3' wide, 2'deep...
I paid $1700 for it and and very please with the strength, however this safe did come from china, as you know QC is not up to par in china....my safe came with a huge hunk of jagged steel weld on the bottom, great for scratching hardwood floors....I called pro steel told them about the problem and said I would fix it myself if they would please sent a check for $300....so with a little work I guess you could say I got the safe for $1400...not a bad deal.

 

[chief38]

I know that my Liberty Presidential safe is a decent one and yes it is both fire rated (1,550 F. for an hour) as well as having a residential burglar rating.
My point was that for the same amount of money that one would spend on this safe today, a used Jewelery Store safe can be purchased. These are typically MUCH stronger, have a commercial burglar rating and are fire rated as well. For the same amount of money, one winds up with a MUCH more secure safe. By the way, a jewelery store safe of approximately the same dimensions weighs about twice as much. Remember, in order for a jewelry store to get their burglar insurance, they must prove that they have a safe that meets the insurance company's guidelines. I would be willing to bet that any "gun safe" that we gun collectors own would not!

This posting was really meant for people that are presently considering purchasing a new safe. Guys like me that already have one will just have to learn to make what we have work as good as possible by bolting them to the floor, alarming them etc.

chief38

 

[ridewv]

I know that my Liberty Presidential safe is a decent one and yes it is both fire rated (1,550 F. for an hour) as well as having a residential burglar rating.
My point was that for the same amount of money that one would spend on this safe today, a used Jewelery Store safe can be purchased. These are typically MUCH stronger, have a commercial burglar rating and are fire rated as well. For the same amount of money, one winds up with a MUCH more secure safe. By the way, a jewelery store safe of approximately the same dimensions weighs about twice as much. Remember, in order for a jewelry store to get their burglar insurance, they must prove that they have a safe that meets the insurance company's guidelines. I would be willing to bet that any "gun safe" that we gun collectors own would not!

This posting was really meant for people that are presently considering purchasing a new safe. Guys like me that already have one will just have to learn to make what we have work as good as possible by bolting them to the floor, alarming them etc.

chief38

Chief38 I'm in agreement with you. When I out grew my Fort Knox Defender I started shopping. I was debating whether to replace mine with a larger gun safe, or simply buying another average size safe and having two. Then I remembered an old jewelry store that went out of business a couple years earlier and I contacted the owner. He still had the Mosler safe, his father bought new in 1946, and he really wanted to sell it. He showed me the documents from Mosler that came with it, along with the original freight bill of lading which read 3,700 pounds! Then he confided that previous interested buyers lost interest when they found out how difficult it'd be to re-locate it. As it turned out the inside of the safe was set up pretty nice for handguns. And there was a vault within the safe for other valuables such as 380 ammo .
I offered him $1,500 saying it's gonna be expensive for me to get it moved. He said "make it $1,000, I just need to have it out of here". (So much for my negotiating!) A moving company charged me $800 to place it in my shop. Later when paying he owner of the moving company he said they had a couple large safes at their terminal which people, for whatever reason, abandoned and were for sale.
So when looking to buy a safe also check business' going out of business, or ones that recently did, along with local movers.

 

[chief38]

Ridewv

Good move!. Only wish I had someone school me when I was shopping for mine!

chief38

 

[hobby-gunsmith]

I have purchased two Liberty safes in the past 15 years. My present safe is a Liberty Presidential I have had for seven years. I would not hesitate to purchase another Liberty Safe. The ratings are tops and they have a lifetime warranty if the safe is damaged while attempting a break-in. They add to the decor of the room and if an attempt is made to open it, the safe will re-lock itself internally and can not be opened if drilling is further attempted. You get what you pay for and Liberty is one of the best safes on the market.

 

[Double-O-Dave]

I've been shopping for a gun safe as I have some long guns to secure as well. I stopped at the local locksmith's shop to see if they had any used gun safes, see what tips and information I could pick-up, and get an idea of their prices to move and install a safe in my house. The saleslady highly recommended their Liberty safes, They had one model that would hold up to 24 long guns that was listed at $1,700.00. Without even asking, the sales lady said if I was interested, she would sell it to me for $1,500.00. She also told me that a previous customer bought two of these safes before she even had a chance to offer him a discount! She reported that once she told him that she would be willing to reduce the price by $400.00 for the two safes, he just shrugged and said "okay". Some people have more money than brains, and I'd sure like to have that problem. Lesson learned, ask for any discounts as well as any tips or pointers.

Best of luck,

Dave

 

[ridewv]

Ridewv

Good move!. Only wish I had someone school me when I was shopping for mine!

chief38

Thanks chief. Dave's 24 gun Liberty for $1,500 sounds like a pretty good deal too.

 

[flagman1776]

An aquaintance (machinist, FFL, builder of Nat Match Rifles), buys up old "town hall" safes... purchase price is minimal, he pays a rigger to move it to his business where he reconditions it. He built a new family room... the wheels were removed & the extra heavy re-rod for the floor slab run through the "feet". That safe is not going anywhere.

 

[kennyb]

i recently purchased a winchester legacy safe...six feet tall..weighs over a thousand pounds and holds a lot...mine also has the feature that if you enter the entry code more then a couple times it "locks up" and will not permit anymore code entrys for about 30 minutes...it has the inch and a half locking bolts (18) i have been real pleased with it