More Questions About 38/44 Heavy Duty and S&W Long Throw Actions In General

[mainegrw]

Good Afternoon All,

In another thread I discussed picking up a 1937 38/44 Heavy Duty, and last evening after work she came home. The gun is in pretty good condition overall aside from having a bit of honest finish wear and couple spots of minor pitting, probably from being left in a damp holster for too long or maybe a gun socknor something. She also has the wrong grips, instead of the diamond magnas it would have shipped with, she has a nice 70s or 80s vintage set of S&W factory Target grips, that while not being original, still feel pretty good in the hand.

The action locks up tight and in time as far as I can tell, no hammer push off, and only tiny little bit of endshake and cylinder play, though I haven't been to the range with it yet. This however brings me to my first question: The action strikes me a different when compared to the more modern post-war S&W revolvers I've owned. This is the first pre-war S&W in my collection, and also the first long action as well. It seems to me on a double action pull, the cylinder rotates into position and locks up faster than it does in a short action. Is this perception only because of the extra hammer travel? Am I just crazy?

Also, on a related note, I did notice something else about the action: There is an audible click when I put pressure on the trigger at the start of a pull, or if i put a finger on the hammer to draw it back for a single action pull. What i believe may be happening is that the hammer is not fully returning to its rest position, and the click is maybe the sear or part of trigger dropping into place. The hammer is returning to a safe position though, as i cannot physically push it forward once the action has be actuated. Could this be a sign of a worn main spring or rebound spring? I don't believe there's any replacement parts in this revolver at all, everytging appears original, however I haven't been inside. The screws have indicators of having all been turned at one time or another, but the side plate doesn't look like it's ever been out or at least not in a very long time.

Thoughts? Also, I'll add photos after work.

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[andyinlz]

Clean it well and lubricate it before doing anything else.

That may be the end of your issue.

 

[mainegrw]

Clean it well and lubricate it before doing anything else.

That may be the end of your issue.

Done and done. I just popped off the side plate and surprisingly, it's squeaky clean in there, so I gave it a little oil and back together it went.


As to the click I hear: I traced it to the hammer block, which in this model is a spring steel finger mounted into the sideplate. I suspect it's hanging up on something lightly just not sure what. Now im wondering if something was replaced in this gun at some point, possibly the hammer block itself. Does that part require some fitting to work right?

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[Hondo44]

Can you recreate the click with the side plate off by cycling the action.
Note: don't do this rigorously because the axial pins for hammer and trigger are not supported by the side plate. Also hold a finger against the action parts so they don't pop out.

If it still clicks, it's not the side plate mounted hammer block. If it doesn't click, you pinpointed the problem area. As you can see, it interacts with the ramp on back of the hand.

Typically the spring in the side plate can gum up, that's why the post war sliding bar hammer block replaced it. It does take some fitting and it's a flat spring as you can see. Push on the spring and see if you can recreate the click.

 

[mainegrw]

Can you recreate the click with the side plate off by cycling the action.

Note: don't do this rigorously because the axial pins for hammer and trigger are not supported by the side plate. Also hold a finger against the action parts so they don't pop out.



If it still clicks, it's not the side plate mounted hammer block. If it doesn't click, you pinpointed the problem area. As you can see, it interacts with the ramp on back of the hand.



Typically the spring in the side plate can gum up, that's why the post war sliding bar hammer block replaced it. It does take some fitting and it's a flat spring as you can see. Push on the spring and see if you can recreate the click.

I did just this, and yes, the click is coming from the hammer block. It appears there's a tiny ridge on the edge of the finger that drops in between the frame and hammer, and when the hammer moves that tiny bit, it allows the hammer block to drop in a little deeper. This is no longer a concern to me.

However, I did run over to the range to test fire the gun a little while ago. She's in good time, and the shoots perfectly straight. Single action trigger is beautiful, however the double action leaves a lot to be desired.... Dry firing with snap caps it felt ok, with maybe a little rough spot mid travel. When I put real ammo in it, thats when I could really notice a fairly hard wall mid travel, and I'm not totally sure why, though again I suspect the fitment of the hammer block having something to do with it. It feels almost like the tab that the hammer block engages on the ramped portion of the hand may fall off at end of travel, and what I'm feeling as a wall might be the tab re-engaging the ramp. I took the gun apart again for a bit and looked it over. Without the hammer block and side plate, it seems to function fine. As such I very carefully and lightly lapped the sharp edges of the hammer block tab, and this improved the feel quite a bit, but there's still a hard wall there, albeit much easier to climb over now. I'm a bit fearful to go much further than I already have. I am confident at this point that somebody either replaced the hammer block or the hand, and skipped proper fitment of the two interacting parts. I'm also kinda worried that block tab may be putting forward pressure on the hand during travel as well. I did see some evidence of rubbing between the parts along the side wall of the ramp onthe back of the hand. Perhaps my problem lies with hitting a point along the tavel where the hand it being forced into the back of the cylinder too hard.

Thoughts?

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[Hondo44]

I think you did an excellent job of troubleshooting.

As I was reading your post, but before I read your entire post, or about your suspected 'culprit', I was thinking the same thing. If the spring is rubbing the shoulder of the hand ramp, it's binding there. I would eliminate that point of contact/binding; the spring sounds like it's a bit too long.

 

[mainegrw]

I think you did an excellent job of troubleshooting.

As I was reading your post, but before I read your entire post, and your suspected 'culprit' I was thing the same thing the same thing. If the spring is rubbing the shoulder of the hand ramp, it's binding there. I would eliminate that point of contact/binding; the spring sounds like it's a bit too long.

Thanks, I too believe this might be the culprit still. Tomorrow I'm going to lap that edge a little more and see how it feels.

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[6string]

Great Topic

This is a great discussion. Thanks to all ... the OP, everyone who replied.
Thread vote posted!!

Thanks,
Jim

 

[Geezer7]

Another 38/44 issue...

Colleagues

I just got a 1930-dated 38/44--unfortunately with a broken trigger stud, no hand, and an old re-nickel.

I broke 2 spanners trying to loosen the threaded trigger stud base. I was able to drill a fairly centered/deep hole into the old stud (see pic #1) and fitted a new pin through the trigger (see pic #2) that sits fairly well in both the drilled stud hole and sideplate hole.

However, the 3-pin hand I got (see pic #3) is not as wide as the one pictured above, and it over-extends and sticks back (see pic #4) when I work the action without the side plate installed. And with the side plate installed, when I try to pull the trigger, the action makes nasty metallic clanks and will only move halfway back.

Any advice?

Thanks in advance
Bruce

 

[handejector]

Bruce,
Look at the hand in Post #1. The hand you have is NOT the right hand. You need a hand with a ramp on the rear that moves the hammer block aside so the gun will shoot.

 

[Geezer7]

Thanks.

Anyone know where I can get one? I've unsuccessfully searched every site I know of...