Mossberg 590 Shockwave -- Be Careful Out There

[moralem]

Sportsmans Outdoor Superstore.

Pre-order.

$389.00 includes shipping.

No CC charge till shipped.

Yeah but with my luck they will charge me and never notify me.......I will check it out though.


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[shawn mccarver]

I am posting this as a separate thread because I care about my friends.

I consider Mossberg a great company, and there is a lot of buzz about the Mossberg 590 Shockwave. Even though it fires 12 gauge shells and has a barrel of only 14 inches, because it has an overall length greater than 26" and it was never intended to be shot from the shoulder, there are some who say it is legal without a BATFE tax stamp.

I am no expert. But if it is not a shotgun, then, for precisely that reason, it could be a destructive device.

Therefore, IMHO, until I saw letters from both the BATFE and my state saying the Shockwave was good to go -- I would stay away.

Be careful out there

Actually, the "some who say it is legal without a BATFE tax stamp" are the US Congress, and the ATF, based upon the language of the applicable federal statutes, and the ATF Rules enacted under ATF's rule making authority.

As for your assumption that "if it is not a shotgun, then, for precisely that reason, it could be a destructive device," there is another choice under the law. The 590 Shockwave is recorded as "other firearm" on the 4473. Have a look at the definition under Question 16 on the Form 4473 as a starting point.

Mossberg did not just start selling these without doing their "due diligence," and getting ATF approval first.

 

[bushmaster1313]

And you're basing this on your experience as an attorney? Or maybe a BATFE agent? FFL holder? Or just because it looks pretty scary and couldn't/shouldn't be legal even though the BATFE is letting Mossberg sell them and they come with appropriate documentation to prove they are legal?

Also, this Mossberg isn't the only one of these shorty shotguns being sold, there are other companies making/selling similar guns.

1) Under the NFA" "Destructive device" means any device, instrument or object designed to explode or produce uncontrolled combustion, including (1) any explosive or incendiary bomb, mine or grenade; (2) any rocket having a propellant charge of more than four ounces or any missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter of an ounce; (3) any weapon capable of firing a projectile of a caliber greater than 60 caliber, except a shotgun or shotgun ammunition generally recognized as suitable for sporting purposes;

2) Therefore, under the NFA, all 12 gauge shotguns would be destructive devices but for the fact that they are shotguns and shotguns are specifically exempted by the NFA from being a destructive device.

3) The Shockwave would be a short barreled shotgun but for the fact that it is not a shotgun.

4) Because the Shockwave is not a shotgun and it otherwise meets the definition of a destructive device, it is a destructive device under the NFA.

Someone please explain to me what is incorrect about the above analysis.

 

[Muss Muggins]

1) Under the NFA" "Destructive device" means any device, instrument or object designed to explode or produce uncontrolled combustion, including (1) any explosive or incendiary bomb, mine or grenade; (2) any rocket having a propellant charge of more than four ounces or any missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter of an ounce; (3) any weapon capable of firing a projectile of a caliber greater than 60 caliber, except a shotgun or shotgun ammunition generally recognized as suitable for sporting purposes;

2) Therefore, under the NFA, all 12 gauge shotguns would be destructive devices but for the fact that they are shotguns and shotguns are specifically exempted by the NFA from being a destructive device.

3) The Shockwave would be a short barreled shotgun but for the fact that it is not a shotgun.

4) Because the Shockwave is not a shotgun and it otherwise meets the definition of a destructive device, it is a destructive device under the NFA.

Someone please explain to me what is incorrect about the above analysis.

I suspect they have a letter . . .

Mossberg 590 Shockwave

 

[codenamedave]

1) Under the NFA" "Destructive device" means any device, instrument or object designed to explode or produce uncontrolled combustion, including (1) any explosive or incendiary bomb, mine or grenade; (2) any rocket having a propellant charge of more than four ounces or any missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter of an ounce; (3) any weapon capable of firing a projectile of a caliber greater than 60 caliber, except a shotgun OR shotgun ammunition generally recognized as suitable for sporting purposes;

2) Therefore, under the NFA, all 12 gauge shotguns would be destructive devices but for the fact that they are shotguns and shotguns are specifically exempted by the NFA from being a destructive device.

3) The Shockwave would be a short barreled shotgun but for the fact that it is not a shotgun.

4) Because the Shockwave is not a shotgun and it otherwise meets the definition of a destructive device, it is a destructive device under the NFA.

Someone please explain to me what is incorrect about the above analysis.

It says "or", not "and."

AND as others have pointed out, this is nothing new. Nottashotguns have been configured like this, possessed, sold, and plastered all over the internet for years.

Would you say this is an SBR or AOW?

BFS Equipped XO-26™ R2 – Franklin Armory™

Made in California of all places, for years. Same "other" and over 26" thing.

 

[Faulkner]

Cool factor: 10

Utility factor: 0

Kinda like a Mare's Leg

 

[tops]

Kinda like a Mare's Leg

Awhile back at the gun range a guy had one and couldn't hit anything with it and was even having a difficult time working the lever. He told me he didn't understand "the guy on Wanted Dead or Alive could hit everything."
When he said that I heard Mama call and I had to leave. Larry

 

[Lee's Landing Billy]

Men, I can give a thorough report after today's shooting. Several of my shooters shot it. With low brass 8s fun, fine and dandy. High brass just one notch below brutal. Or at least for my 70 year old self. One of my guys is going to load us 9 000s at about 800-900 fps instead of full charges. At 10 yards it will put all 8 000s in about a foot pattern. As usual or as we find here, an inch a yard is normal for about everything. I will be on the lookout for one in 20 ga. I think I might like that better. I paid full boat and some for mine $500 in hand. BUT I got one and all my shooters had a big time, so , worth every dime. The recoil is as you would expect but the muzzle blast is worse than my 12 inch 870. Maybe because it's a little closer and at a different angle. That's about all I can add. Billy

 

[ERay]

Neither am I, however I did some very basic research and discovered that it is perfectly legal and not a destructive device.

You only recognize those two categories, shotgun and destructive device? It is not a shotgun or destructive device, it is a "firearm".

Does anyone know the dealer pricing one these? My garage FFL sells for dealer +$20, and I think this would be fun to own.

I need to do even more research at the state level to find out if it would be legal to have it loaded in the vehicle. We have an RCW that bars long guns from being loaded in a vehicle (hunters sometimes like to hunt from the
windows of their trucks as they drive the logging roads), but I need to see if they anticipated "firearm" vs long gun.

Dealer is 315.47.

 

[Rick_A]

I think it would go well with one of these:

 

[Brasky]

Companies have been making these for years out of 500s and 870s. If it was illegal they would be shut down already

 

[Ozark Marine]

I think it would go well with one of these:

That would be a BATF big no no.
I have a Mossberg 500, factory pistol grip with barrel heat shield.
A good shooting shot gun, but I replaced the pistol grip with a M-4 style collapsible pistol grip stock.
Now it is a lot more accurate and fun to fire.

Still waiting for the 590 Shockwave to ship.

 

[K Frame Keith]

It frightens me. Is there a safe space on the home page?

 

[Muss Muggins]

Men, I can give a thorough report after today's shooting. Several of my shooters shot it. With low brass 8s fun, fine and dandy. High brass just one notch below brutal. Or at least for my 70 year old self. One of my guys is going to load us 9 000s at about 800-900 fps instead of full charges. At 10 yards it will put all 8 000s in about a foot pattern. As usual or as we find here, an inch a yard is normal for about everything. I will be on the lookout for one in 20 ga. I think I might like that better. I paid full boat and some for mine $500 in hand. BUT I got one and all my shooters had a big time, so , worth every dime. The recoil is as you would expect but the muzzle blast is worse than my 12 inch 870. Maybe because it's a little closer and at a different angle. That's about all I can add. Billy

I would use these:

Aguila Minishells

 

[Lee's Landing Billy]

Muss, we will get ALOT more buckshot out of each shell by loading our own. The little shells don't run 100% and even though there are more in the tube the actual buckshot pellet count will be the same. 6 X 8 vs 10 X 3. with no feeding probs.

 

[codenamedave]

I was a bit confused by the SHOT Show coverage, where the factory rep stated that they had installed a mod that let the Mossberg reliably feed mini-shells. From other sources, apparently they put in a popular aftermarket mod just for the show.

I reckon the folks that make the Opsol Mini clip are in full panic production mode, seeing as how the market's reacting to the Shockwave. It's like it's sending a..ahh... whatchacallit through the industry.

That would be a BATF big no no.
I have a Mossberg 500, factory pistol grip with barrel heat shield.
A good shooting shot gun, but I replaced the pistol grip with a M-4 style collapsible pistol grip stock.
Now it is a lot more accurate and fun to fire.

Still waiting for the 590 Shockwave to ship.

Wouldn't it be ok if it met the length requirement? I can see installers first removing the barrel before putting on a new grip, just to prevent that moment of gripless shortfulness.

 

[sigp220.45]

I think it would go well with one of these:

I suspect that would put it under 26" overall and earn the possessor some jail time.

 

[BC38]

I suspect that would put it under 26" overall and earn the possessor some jail time.

Only if this dimension is less than the length of the original birds-head grip....

 

[Arik]

I have no interest in this firearm but Mossberg didn't just slap some parts together and send it to the gun stores. If it's for sale it's legal.

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[codenamedave]

Just eyeballing 'em, it looks close.

Somebody with all the special licenses needs to bust out the tape measure.