Mouse Gun for Self Defense

[Cal44]

So what is considered the most reliable .32 mouse gun?

Probably a 31-1 Smith and Wesson revolver.

 

[Bald1]

I think most people would say Seacamp or Tomcat in current production. But there are some fine “older” .32s

 

[Wyo]

So what is considered the most reliable .32 mouse gun?

I have a Beretta 81 that I sometimes pack. It’s a bit chunky in the grip but holds 12+1 and is one of the most reliable handguns I’ve ever owned. That thing just does not quit. And I have a really nice old Colt 1903 in .32 that seems just about as good but I don’t shoot it as often.

 

[10Mad]

Always remember that there is a trade off between size of gun, caliber choice and ability to control. I’ve killed many things in my life and often times it has taken more than 1 shot. If you can’t quickly put the second shot on top of the first shot then you have a problem. The Mozambique drill is the gold standard of shooting and some smaller guns make that very difficult. Full size pistols are good for this but as you go smaller a man has to know his limitations.

 

[Marshal Too Sweet]

I've been shot up some over the years. Never crossed my mind what caliber it was, they all hurt really bad. Real pain usually comes about 45 seconds to a couple of minutes, so you need to put them down as quick as possible.

 

[petepeterson]

I don't see the need to carry a smaller caliber - we are in the age of micro compact 9mm guns like the P365. When you can have 10+1 of 9mm in a package that small, you really have to wonder why you would carry a mouse gun.

While I agree with your premise, there is a vast difference between carrying my 365 and my Kel-Tec. At least at my body size.
While the li'l 380's is smaller, both have a role for me. Especially in the summer.

 

[petepeterson]

I’m about to head out onto the mean streets of my whitebread Colorado town and I believe one of my .32s will get the nod today. Wish me luck.

I surely hope you picked that pretty' 03 for your travels. Dillinger would approve.
Not that your little Italian friends are ugly......

 

[petepeterson]

My EDC. .32acp. I feel well protected.

You certainly are.
And that pistol is a nice back-up!

 

[haywood]

We have all heard the stories how a guy took shotgun hits and kept coming. Then there is stories of just the sight of a gun made the attacker turn and run. I have also heard 22’s kill more than any other caliber. I guess what you can afford, handle/carry, and make decent shots with, is the best for you. I carry 38 and 9. Lots of people carry bigger and smaller. What ever works for you. As long as you always carry.

 

[BB57]

The only responsible and real choice in 380 on down is ball.

Why is that?

Do you have a logical and rational explanation or is it just repeating what you’ve been told?

Let’s take the 60 gr and 90 gr XTP examples above as a starting point for you to educate me on what I have so obviously missed.

The .32 ACP 60 gr XTP under penetrated by .5” in the gel test above. Is that enough difference to make a difference?

The 90 gr XTP from the .380 didn’t under penetrate at all. Why would a ball round be “the only responsible and real choice” for .380 ACP when some .380 ACP hollow points demonstrate both reliable expansion and at least 12” penetration?

Let’s also look at this 75 gr hard cast round nose flat point bullet fired from a .32 ACP. That’s 27” of penetration. That’s typical for both .32 ACP and .380 ACP jacketed ball and hard cast bullets.

27” is enough penetration to exit the skinny assailant you just shot and hit and wound a bystander behind him. Explain to me how ball and hard cast bullets that will *always* over penetrate are “the only responsible and real choice”.

As long as gross under penetration has been eliminated in a hollow point to be used in .380 ACP or .32 ACP, the only potential bullet failure that is left is a failure to expand. But when that happens, the unexpanded hollow point acts just like a ball round.

Even if the hollow point expansion is inconsistent, it’s better than ball. If for example of 40 percent of the bullets fired fail to expand at a given marginal velocity, that’s still a 60% success rate. That compares really well to the guaranteed 0% success rate for expansion with ball ammo, where 100% of those rounds will also over penetrate.

—-

I’ve handloaded for 46 years for an incredibly wide range of cartridges in rifles and handguns. I have used a chronograph for load development since the mid 1990s, and I use ballistics gel to test the ammunition I carry in my various concealed carry handguns.

I’ve invested a significant amount of time, effort and money to conduct my own independent research to back stop other research I’ve read in order to be able to have an informed opinion and make solid and responsible self defense ammunition and handgun choices.

I know exactly what I can expect within the limits of test criteria and validity in the rounds and handguns I carry for self defense.

And yet without fail, when I post something like this someone will show up to try to school me with a drive by style comment made with no caveats or qualifications that an FMJ or hard cast bullet is the only correct choice for .380 ACP or .32 ACP.

So by all means, explain. I await your wisdom with eager anticipation.

 

[BB57]

During Army Basic Training we were advised 2 shots in the chest plus 1 in the head...if the situation cooperates.

We should put that in the proper context and make sure that’s clearly understood.

The winning hearts and minds approach (2 in the heart, one in the mind) as a training concept dates back to 1970 and the “Mozambique” drill.

This article does a good job of relating the origin and history of it as a training concept:

The Mozambique Drill: A History and How To | An Official Journal Of The NRA

The name was changed to the Failure to Stop Drill for political sensitivity reasons, by the time I entered the military or law enforcement, but the concept is the same.

Regardless of the name, the context in which it is used is important. You are using a double tap or controlled pair to the chest (depending on how accurately you can double tap as sufficient accuracy matters more than speed), and then assessing the need for the third aimed shot to the head if the assailant isn’t going down yet.

That assessment between the second and third shots might only be a a tenth of a second as you move the front blade to the assailants head, but there is a very necessary assessment of the need to shoot that must take place.

In the extreme you would not, for example, shoot an enemy combatant or criminal assailant twice in the chest, and then walk up and shoot them in the head while they are on the ground or after they have obviously surrendered.

It’s less extreme and less egregious but you also would not shoot a criminal assailant twice in the body and then intentionally and deliberately shoot them in the head if they are already down, going down, or are in the process of surrendering or retreating.

In those circumstances that third shot moves it from a valid self defense shoot to what may well be (legitimately) regarded as murder or an out right execution.

——

I will add here that the increased potential to encounter an assailant with Level II or IIIA body armor, or a military combatant with Level III or IV ballistic plates has made the failure to stop drill even more relevant now than it was even a couple decades ago.

 

[Imissedagain]

Hornady 115gr XTPs with BE or even better, N320, is used in the Tropics by "bodyguards in bathing suits" with their 380 gun of choice.
Lymans 49th has 2.9gr of BE at 937fps..... 3.75" barrel.

120gr leads at 946fps with 3.2gr of 231..... same barrel.

I was told that Mantle's bat, with a home run swing to your chest, was what a 380 hit felt like.
Funny guys.

I'll let someone use my BPV, to verify this, but your wife has to be the shooter.
BPV was a gift from my boy's Cop buddy, to replace our boating life jackets that he lost when they were teenagers.
Took him a few years but it was a nice surprise.