MPs not allowed as civilian LEO?

[Steve_in_PA]

I am a current college student, double majoring in criminal justice and psychology. I have been in talks with a recruiter for the United States Marine Corps, my planned MOS is Military Police (becoming an Officer via PLC option.) I ran into a friend today that strongly advised against this, he claimed that civilian Police Departments were not allowed to hire MP's because military law is very different from civilian law. It sounds fishy to me, and this particular is not to be noted for his intelligence, but I wanted to follow up and do alittle research. After all, I'd rather ask a stupid question than end up being the stupid bugger who can't continue his career after leaving the Corps.

Your "friend" has no idea what he is talking about.

 

[Bell Charter Oak Holsters]

I am a current college student, double majoring in criminal justice and psychology. I have been in talks with a recruiter for the United States Marine Corps, my planned MOS is Military Police (becoming an Officer via PLC option.) I ran into a friend today that strongly advised against this, he claimed that civilian Police Departments were not allowed to hire MP's because military law is very different from civilian law. It sounds fishy to me, and this particular is not to be noted for his intelligence, but I wanted to follow up and do alittle research. After all, I'd rather ask a stupid question than end up being the stupid bugger who can't continue his career after leaving the Corps.

Your friends advice is absurd nonsense.

Cheers;
Lefty

 

[Springfeildkid585]

BTW, you misspelled your screen name.

It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word.

-Andrew Jackson

 

[Doug M.]

If you want to serve in the military, do so. That is a stand alone decision, for which no one else can judge you. Military experience, depending on the person and what they make of it, can be a help or a hinderance. I can't think of anyone I know who has served in military LE who thinks the missions and training translate to civilian LE. I've worked with LE personnel from one branch during joint operations, and while they are good people, their training and socialization were not the same as ours. They could not do our job without a lot of re-training, and we could not do most of theirs without re-training either. One huge context difference is the military interests in the UCMJ, chain of command outside of the LE function, etc. Military LE in the long run answers to the base commander, and his/her decisions might be far different from what an LE trained boss would do. We did not care about dress codes and all other things that have meaning in the military. The change in context means a real change in mindset.

I have met and worked with excellent LE personnel who came from the military. I have met some who were utter disasters in many different ways. This is true regardless of their MOS in the service. The problem with both the military and LE is that they recruit and select from a human population, and within that population are a variety of attributes and skills. Some folks, regardless of background, should never be in LE. The military may sort them out, or may make them worse.

 

[wilkoi]

Sounds like advise from the north end of a south bound bull. My son was in the AF, security, and is now a homicide detective in Memphis.

 

[MaximumLawman]

I can't think of anyone I know who has served in military LE who thinks the missions and training translate to civilian LE.

I agree with this. In fact, I don't know that there is a huge correlation between military service and potential to be a better policeman. Many former military guys I work with seem to be fairly rigid in their thinking, unwilling or unable to use discretion appropriately and unable to make a decision independently. It's ironic because this is the very attribute I hear about when people talk about former military in police: "They can make important decisions quickly without supervision." Some of them can, some of them can't. I don't see any huge difference in the decision-making ability of military vs. non-military. Many of them are more worried about "chain of command" than they should be and have no problem with passing the buck upwards when they should have made their own decision. Not saying this is true with ALL former military types, but it is far from a given that someone with military experience will make a better policeman than someone without.

Also, don't forget the many, many specialty jobs in the military that have nothing to do with leadership. And some of the absolute WORST mid-level managers I've seen in law enforcement were former officers in the military. I've noticed that those guys are the ones who seem to be more likely to rely on their rank to get things done as opposed to earning the respect of their subordinates.

If there are a lot of former military types in civil service jobs, it likely has more to do with the veterans preference points available on the civil service tests and the fact that federal grant money often funds the hiring of veterans. Not necessarily that so many places prefer military experience because vets make better cops and firemen.

Here's a question I have for cops: Management often picks a guy to be their "hatchet man" to administratively go after employees who they've designated as a target. Have you noticed that a disproportionate number of the guys they pick for hatchet man duty seem to be former military officers? I wonder if the "mission first" mindset makes them more willing to screw their colleagues for the sake of their own ambition?

 

[george minze]

I agree with this. In fact, I don't know that there is a huge correlation between military service and potential to be a better policeman. Many former military guys I work with seem to be fairly rigid in their thinking, unwilling or unable to use discretion appropriately and unable to make a decision independently. It's ironic because this is the very attribute I hear about when people talk about former military in police: "They can make important decisions quickly without supervision." Some of them can, some of them can't. I don't see any huge difference in the decision-making ability of military vs. non-military. Many of them are more worried about "chain of command" than they should be and have no problem with passing the buck upwards when they should have made their own decision. Not saying this is true with ALL former military types, but it is far from a given that someone with military experience will make a better policeman than someone without.

Also, don't forget the many, many specialty jobs in the military that have nothing to do with leadership. And some of the absolute WORST mid-level managers I've seen in law enforcement were former officers in the military. I've noticed that those guys are the ones who seem to be more likely to rely on their rank to get things done as opposed to earning the respect of their subordinates.

If there are a lot of former military types in civil service jobs, it likely has more to do with the veterans preference points available on the civil service tests and the fact that federal grant money often funds the hiring of veterans. Not necessarily that so many places prefer military experience because vets make better cops and firemen.

Here's a question I have for cops: Management often picks a guy to be their "hatchet man" to administratively go after employees who they've designated as a target. Have you noticed that a disproportionate number of the guys they pick for hatchet man duty seem to be former military officers? I wonder if the "mission first" mindset makes them more willing to screw their colleagues for the sake of their own ambition?

Interesting post: Inspection personel are inspection personel....Not a job I would like but necessary...Most medium to large departments seem to think they are required . Sure not the job to win a popularity contest. I never checked up on the military background of guys in the inspection service..Never even occurred to me....We called them Sho-Flies...Not drinking buddies, but not the enemy either.....They had their jobs we had ours.....

 

[David LaPell]

With our department and other local LEO's I know military vets get additional points on the Civil Service exams. Everyone has to take them but we have had several military vets working with us, USMC, Army, Air Force and Navy alike.

 

[Plinker1962]

Pay no attention to the information your friend is telling you. It's all wrong. Like others have said, you'll be attending an academy that will teach you the laws of that particular state. Almost all departmentments welcome "former Marine's" as applicants. What you're going to have to do is to keep your nose clean before you separate from the Corp. You don't want to start a new career with a dirty jacket. Good luck to you and Thank You for your service in the Marine Corp!

 

[Doug M.]

While I was hesitant to say what MaximumLawman did, I have seen the same sorts of things, and some departments really magnify that. We have one large agency in this state that is infamous for treating its personnel poorly (last I heard they were 0 for 23 on their last 23 arbitrations), and loses virtually all the suits against it by both employees and citizens. Big bucks, too. A $2.3M settlement for a false arrest case based on a perjured warrant application not involving physical injury, and one for over $800K plus attorney fees for fabricating grounds to fire a Captain. Their mindset is a lot like what ML described. They needed to be taken over by DOJ a lot more than Seattle ever did, and I wouldn't generally advocate letting DOJ taking over a nursery school because they are so ignorant.

 

[MaximumLawman]

We called them Sho-Flies...Not drinking buddies, but not the enemy either.....They had their jobs we had ours.....

Yep, they definitely serve a purpose and sometimes need to do a job that needs to be done. It's just when it appears that they're filling that role to advance a personal ambition that rankles me sometimes. And if the top level guy is a Marine (for example) and his "aide de camp" is Marine too, look out! Law enforcement is known for cliques as it is and when you add the cliques within the cliques and the loyalties within the loyalties.....You need to read Machiavelli's "The Prince" to keep up with it all.

 

[Muley Gil]

When I went the academy in Illinois in 1978 it was 6 weeks, and it didn't seem to hinder my career.

I went through the academy down in Alabama back in 1979. It was also 6 weeks long.

Before 1971, there was NO police academy required in Alabama . Most of the cops that I worked with that were hired before that date were first rate.

 

[george minze]

Yep, they definitely serve a purpose and sometimes need to do a job that needs to be done. It's just when it appears that they're filling that role to advance a personal ambition that rankles me sometimes. And if the top level guy is a Marine (for example) and his "aide de camp" is Marine too, look out! Law enforcement is known for cliques as it is and when you add the cliques within the cliques and the loyalties within the loyalties.....You need to read Machiavelli's "The Prince" to keep up with it all.

I read the Prince years ago.....Memory is getting old but didn't he end up in a jail,,,,,, Machiavelli that is.. Interesting guy if my old memory is on target......Sounds like the political scene today, with out the rack...In those days being on the side that lost could be injures to ones health..

 

[MaximumLawman]

..In those days being on the side that lost could be injures to ones health..

Yeah, much better to lose a promotion than your thumbs...or worse!