museum and machine guns

[steveno]

when a museum has some machine guns and they are posted as de-activated does the atf still keep track of them? I don't know what was done to de-activate them other than removing a firing pin or some part of the fire control has been removed. none of these guns have been welded on that I can see. there is a Thompson , BAR and a number of world war 2 machine guns. there is even a 37 mm anti-tank cannon but since you might not be able to get ammo for it that is probably de-activating by itself. these machine guns have been there for over 50 years.

if you happen to be traveling through Hastings , Nebraska they have a pretty decent gun display including the mentioned machine guns. they have a S & W 320 (serial number 18 according to the tag) there that looks like it left the factory yesterday

 

[ParadiseRoad]

...I'm pretty sure the only way the ATF will forget about them is if the receivers are cut into three pieces with a torch...whoever they were transferred to last must be holding the paperwork on them...

 

[colt_saa]

If they are deactivated, they are not machine guns (NFA Title II firearms)

They are simply pieces of metal that cosmetically resemble a machine gun

Absolutly, positivly, Title II items can be removed from the NFA registry

 

[BAM-BAM]

I guess it could depend what "the museum" means by "de-activated"........


If I had them on display;I'd label them that way....even if they weren't!!!!!!!!!!

 

[DWalt]

There are a number of museums which have supposedly "deactivated" fully automatic weapons on display. I always wondered if they were actually de-activated, and if so, do they meet BATFE requirements.

I remember reading something about a museum in, I think Massachusetts, which found a WWI German Maxim '08 MG stored away in a basement or attic. BATFE refused to allow them to deactivate it for display, and as I remember, they seized and destroyed it. Someone may have better and more accurate details regarding this incident, it's been maybe 3 or 4 years ago. If so, it could be an interesting lesson in how BATFE treats NFA guns in museums.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

If they are deactivated, they are not machine guns (NFA Title II firearms)

They are simply pieces of metal that cosmetically resemble a machine gun

Absolutly, positivly, Title II items can be removed from the NFA registry

This is absolutely the farthest from the truth you can get! A Deactivated War Trophy (known as a "DWAT" and pronounced "D-watt") is a transferable item. Same general paperwork as a Class III Machine Gun, but only $5 transfer. Big Brother has a copy of every record they ever made! Remember in the U.S., The receiver is the gun!

Some DAWT's were deactivated in the postwar years by welding a plug in the barrel, allowing blanks to fire. (Think "Movie Guns") Some had the bolts welded into non functioning condition. I know of one or two blank firing units being "RE-manufactured" into transferable operating machineguns. This was prior to the ban on new manufacture.

DAWT's that were officially deactivated can be reactivated under the normal conditions of manufacture. Now days they can only be reactivated as sale samples or LE guns. To become privately owned, they would have to have been imported and deactivated prior to 1968, Owned by an by LE agency then transferred to a class III dealer. In the process there would be a few $200 transfers. It is all very red tape messy! However that WWII, $800 M1A1 Thompson by Savage in 1978, is now around $10,000. Some PD's are seeing dollar signs!

Ivan

 

[colt_saa]

This is absolutely the farthest from the truth you can get! A Deactivated War Trophy (known as a "DWAT" and pronounced "D-watt") is a transferable item. Same general paperwork as a Class III Machine Gun, but only $5 transfer. Big Brother has a copy of every record they ever made! Remember in the U.S., The receiver is the gun!

Some DAWT's were deactivated in the postwar years by welding a plug in the barrel, allowing blanks to fire. (Think "Movie Guns") Some had the bolts welded into non functioning condition. I know of one or two blank firing units being "RE-manufactured" into transferable operating machineguns. This was prior to the ban on new manufacture.

DAWT's that were officially deactivated can be reactivated under the normal conditions of manufacture. Now days they can only be reactivated as sale samples or LE guns. To become privately owned, they would have to have been imported and deactivated prior to 1968, Owned by an by LE agency then transferred to a class III dealer. In the process there would be a few $200 transfers. It is all very red tape messy! However that WWII, $800 M1A1 Thompson by Savage in 1978, is now around $10,000. Some PD's are seeing dollar signs!

Ivan

My apologies for being way too general.

DWATs are not "Machine Guns" under Federal Law, they are classified as AOWs. That is why the transfer tax is $5 instead of $200

There is no current Federal ban on Manufacturing of "Machine Guns."

Turning a DWAT or any other pile of parts into a "Machine Gun" is manufacturing that occurs on the day you do it. All "Machine Guns" manufactured these days (after 1986) are non-transferable to the general public under current Federal Law.

Title II items can be removed from the NFA Registry. This is not to say that BATFE does not keep a copy of the paper work up to that point, but once off the Registry they lose track of the item as no further Forms are filed with them at the subsequent transfers of ownership.

We have traded several Departments brand new MP5s for their Thompsons and other Title II firearms over the years. They were thrilled to get new firearms for a zero cash outlay without the need to try and sell them publicly.

 

[ParadiseRoad]

...some recently available parts kits with the receivers cut in at least three places...

 

[federali]

I'm guessing here so hold on to your sticks and stones. Perhaps museums may apply under a curios and relics exemption in order to possess machine guns?

The two Thompsons used in the St. Valentine's Day Massacre are in functioning condition but in the hands of the Chicago PD. No, they are not a museum. However, I believe that all PD full auto weapons must be registered with BATFE.

 

[DWalt]

The St. Valentine's day Thompsons are not in Chicago but in Michigan.
See: http://themobmuseum.org/blog/monday...-guns-used-in-the-st-valentines-day-massacre/