Musings on the 2" M15...

Honestly, if you consider how many people carry .45s and similarly-sized autos as concealed firearms, most of which have a larger grip area than a revolver, the idea that a square butt is less concealable than a round butt is kind of immaterial.
I say, carry what you like and not what someone thinks you should like.
 
I have to go with Model520Fan over Saxon Pig on this.

I carry a handgun with me pretty well all of the time since I became a cop more than 30 years ago. For much of the first half of my career, my primary plain clothes/off duty gun was a 3 inch Model 66. Fish AND fowl, I guess. Round butt frame but adjustable sights.

The superiority of the adjustable sights, with the bigger, blockier sight picture they provide, is a huge advantage for any kind of sighted fire that must be rushed along. Using your sights properly is what gets you hits, which are the point of the shots being fired in the first place

I have never seen how adjustable sights can negatively impact a carry gun that isn't just loosely thrown into a pocket. When using a proper holster, as one probably should do for a handgun the size of a K frame S&W or a D frame Colt, the sights are incredibly unlikley to get hung up on anything during a draw stroke. My department shoots 3 or 4 times a year, 400 or more armed, and I have NEVER ONCE seen an adjustable sight gun get snagged on anything during draw stroke.

Once the gun is gripped, drawn and presented towards the threat/target, at THAT point the bigger, brighter adjustable sights are easily seen and lined up on target so much faster than can be done with the typically, smaller and darker sights most fixed sight guns use.

The square butt gun tempts the shooter to buy large 'target' stocks, but they are often too large to help. and can be a small bit more difficult to carry concealed, but if the stocks are otherwise similar, say, both being checkered Magna stocks on both round and suare butt guns, one cn be hidden away almost as easily one versus another.

My department (the Salt Lake County (Utah) Sheriff Office issued the Model 15 and pre-15 in both 4 inch and 2 inch square butt and 2 inch format from the early 1950's until we began issuing semiauto pistols in 1991. Deputies could also provide their own Colt, S&W or Ruger 6shot .38 Special or .357 Magnum handgun if they preferred such. We could carry Magnum ammo if we could qualify with it. Most detectives wanted the 2 inch gun but the good shooters preferred the 4 inch gun. Anybody could conceal the longer square butt gun as well as the shorter round butt gun if they used proper belts (more important than many believe) and holsters and dressed accordingly.

I did find that over the years, the deputies qualifying with the adjustable sighted guns shot higher scores consistently better than the deputies that had chosen or bought fixed sight guns. Their good shots were rung up faster, as well.

Saxon Pig, a good experience for you would to acquire a 2 inch Model 15 and a 2 inch Model 10 or 64. Fit them with whatever slender stocks you can find, such as smooth Magnas, and actually carry them concealed for a year, one week the square butt adjustable sight gun, the next week the round butt fixed sight gun. Use the same quality of design and materials on your belts and holsters, and keep track of how ofter your concealed guns are pointed out to you by others. Then shoot some fast, draw-and-fire drills from concealment, with someone timing them. You will find, if you rush fast enough to simulate you are taking fire from bad people, that you will get better hits with the adjustable sight guns, and unless you dress really oddly, they won't snag on stuff and halt or slow your draws at all. Shoot at meaningful distances, 7, 15 and 25 yards.

You will find a valid reason for big blocky adjustable sights on your concealed combat revolver; you will hit things a lot better.

That is what my department learned, among other things.
 
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I don't need to experiment with different carry guns. Been doing that for a couple decades, already. Wish I had a dollar for every coat lining I've ripped with the blade on an adjustable sight. Had them catch and interrupt the draw many times in practice. But hey, apparently I'm the only one who ever had this problem to hear a couple of you guys tell it.

Apparently I'm also the only who thinks a more compact grip is easier to conceal. Hell, I'm going to get me that .50 Desert Eagle for concealed carry since I am now being told that physical size is immaterial. :)

I'm starting to wonder why S&W even offered the round but on the hideout guns? You guys need to tell them what you've told me.
 
Honestly, if you consider how many people carry .45s and similarly-sized autos as concealed firearms, most of which have a larger grip area than a revolver, the idea that a square butt is less concealable than a round butt is kind of immaterial.
I say, carry what you like and not what someone thinks you should like.

That's exactly my point, especially on a large frame revolver like a K or L frame, the difference in physical size of the butt and it's shape are so miniscule, to suggest that square butt is in practice inferior to round butt I think is a bit of a stretch
 
Yup. You're right. I don't see how in the world anyone could think a smaller gun is more concealable. Lunacy!
 
Yup. You're right. I don't see how in the world anyone could think a smaller gun is more concealable. Lunacy!

I own RB and SB model 10's, I find neither one of them more or less concealable. The only difference between the two is the square horn of the butt of the grip. It's not "smaller" as you say. We are talking about 3/4 of an inch of rounded edge here. Put Pachmayrs on them and there is virtually no difference in the footprint of the gun.

You make it sound like the RB guns are J frame sized.
 
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Concerning the 2" Mod 15,I think they are beautiful revolvers and look well balanced even with the short tube.
I have fired a lot of them but never actually owned one myself,only the 4 inchers and a six inch K38. The two inch 15's are good shooters,but I agree with the point of them being less practical as a carry gun than some others.

IMO,sights are over rated,period,and the fixed sights on my dehorned Mod 10-5 work fine for me if I need to use a sight. I'm also a little different than most as I actually prefer the two and one half inch bbl on my 19 over a three inch.
It's matter of balance and feel for me,being a point shooter. If I ever run up on a two inch 15 I"ll probably buy it just to have one,but as far as a practical carry gun,for me that would be a compact high capacity 9mm,loaded with 147gr. HST's or Rangers.
 
I bought a 2" 15 used, had it Armolloyed, and used it for years as a car gun. The short barrel made it easier to use in the confines of a vehicle. I had a large grip on it, as I wasn't trying to conceal it, and several writers have mentioned over the years that a large grip/short-barrelled handguns are the hardest for someone to try and take away from you.

I know that "combat tactics" have become their own industry over the last couple of decades, but I'm just your average Joe trying to make his way through life.

I wasn't sold on semiautos for protection purposes when I first bought the model 15. I finally retired it when i bought a S&W Sigma 9V in the early to mid-90's; one of the early ones with the stainless slide and grey frame. If nothing else, I won't shoot anyone by mistake with it, you have to mean it to pull that thing's trigger! :D

I sold the 15 a few years later to a friend just starting out who had a .22 but wanted something to keep at home for protection. Wish I still had it.

Edited to add - if I can only have guns that I have a use for, I'm in big trouble.
 
No, a K frame is never a J frame. But the RB is always smaller than the SB... even if it's not a lot... and the argument I am reading is that there is no difference at all between the two. I don't buy that for one moment. I have both, the RB is easier to conceal. Smaller is easier to hide and I think that's a fact. I do not understand someone arguing that bigger is just the same. No, it isn't.
 
@SaxonPig,

I understand. I had one. It was a pretty good shooter. Alas, I couldn't find a proper application. Yep, it was sold; roughly four months after purchase.

Kind regards--
 
I love mine, and as several here have mentioned it shoots like the 4" barrel M 15. IMHO the best 38 snubby S&W ever built.

You can also have a ball cutting down some grips that came off another SB K frame and making them fit on your M 15 snubby. These came off a Model 66 that I put some original targets on.

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No, a K frame is never a J frame. But the RB is always smaller than the SB... even if it's not a lot... and the argument I am reading is that there is no difference at all between the two. I don't buy that for one moment. I have both, the RB is easier to conceal. Smaller is easier to hide and I think that's a fact. I do not understand someone arguing that bigger is just the same. No, it isn't.

What I did here was take a picture (to scale) of a RB K frame and a SB K frame, I superimposed the RB on top of the SB, and then removed the area of the SB, leaving only the surface area that exists on the SB vs RB.

Let me tell you what, that is a huge butt area that makes the SB completely much bigger and impossible to conceal. While the rest of the gun is 100% identical :rolleyes:

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Many many years ago, I bought a 2 1/2" Mod 19 and my dad bought a 2" Mod 15 [Nickel of all things], specifically for 2" Snub Nosed matches.

The rule for Snubby matches was a factory gun with a barrel under 3".

I did use the Mod 19 for some duty assignments. As a Number 2.

The one thing I never under stood was why most of the 2" mod 15's were square butts?

I like my non pocket guns to have adjustable sights, so I have no issues with a 2" Mod 15, but I just do not see going with a square butt???

While the round but is a little easier to conceal, the main thing is that the round but is easier on the coat that covers the gun.

I would think that detectives would rather have the round butt just for that reason alone. Remember back in the day, there was not mass citizen concealed carry.

Also, just from a personal preference, on a K frame, I much prefer the
2 1/2" barrel of the Mod 19 vs the 2" or the 3" barrel, on other K frame models.

I am not a 38 Special/357 Mag kind of guy for a Primary carry gun,[I just have to have a 44 Mag or a 45 ACP], but if I was, I think the 2 1/2" Mod 19/66 would be the ultimate, holster worn, concealed carry revolver.

I like mine a lot, and wish I could carry it... But I CAN'T......
 
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2" Model 15

I think SaxonPig is right.

Although I've got a 2" Model 15 that I intend to keep, it's pretty clear to me that the 2" Model 10 round butt revolver I also own is a little bit easier to conceal. And at close distances just about as accurate.

I'm keeping them both for now. But if I should use one for a carry gun, it would likely be the Model 10.

I've got a 4" Model 15 too - now that's a shooter! Probably my favorite and shows it by all the bluing I've worn off it.
 
nipster- I'm looking at your photo and the RB is still smaller than the SB and smaller is easier to conceal. IME the SB stocks are more likely to print. Makes sense as they are a bit bigger. I still don't think there's an argument, here. Smaller is better for concealment.

Also don't forget that SB stocks tend to be fuller at the bottom and often flair out more than the RB stocks adding to the bulk. It's not JUST the frame size, it's the whole package.
 
nipster- I'm looking at your photo and the RB is still smaller than the SB and smaller is easier to conceal. IME the SB stocks are more likely to print. Makes sense as they are a bit bigger. I still don't think there's an argument, here. Smaller is better for concealment.

Also don't forget that SB stocks tend to be fuller at the bottom and often flair out more than the RB stocks adding to the bulk. It's not JUST the frame size, it's the whole package.

I never said the RB wasnt physically smaller than the SB, it obviously is, but your argument of "harder to conceal" I think falls flat. That tiny little bit of extra butt surface area makes such a miniscule difference that it's barely worth mentioning. Like I said, especially once you put a real grip on it like a Pachmayr or Hogue. If you want to compare a RB with magnas to a SB with Targets... ok, you got me there. You compare a RB with magnas to a SB with PC magnas and the difference is so miniscule it's not worth mentioning from a concealability standpoint. Plus we are talking the butt of the gun, the rest of the gun is the same, and that is 75% or more of the surface are of the weapon. Revolvers by design are hardly the most concealable weapons to begin with.

I dont see how I can convince you of that, but (no pun intended) you are certainly entitled to your opinion.
 
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