Muzzle break on a 15-22. REALLY?

[SU17]

Edit title: Muzzle brakes

Okay, I got a new Battlecomp 2.0 Muzzle brake for my AR so the Surefire MB556K move over to the MP15-22.

Honestly, I only put it on there for looks thinking there wouldn't be any performance enhancements. For those who don't know, muzzle brakes are design to reduce muzzle climb and recoil. But on a .22LR I didn't think it would do anything since there is very little recoil and muzzle rise. Plus the brakes are designed for the .223/5.56mm

Well, I thought wrong. Here are pics of what I did yesterday. I used both on the 1 Smith & Wesson M&P 15-22. one with the original bird cage and the other with the Surefire MB556K. I did 5 rapid fire pulls, 25 rounds @ 50 feet.

Most brakes are about $150. The KAC triple Tap is about $400, but that's another story.

up to you guys. This was just shock discovery to me, and if you are that type of shooter worth the purchase.

 

[spleify]

Well it is definitely longer than the stock bird cage flash hider so I could see it adding length and therefore adding to the accuracy.

But my real question is, it sounded like you were using two DIFFERENT rifles? Were these two different rifles, or the same rifle and you just switched the flash hider?

I have seen differences in rifles like this before, just because it is the same gun does not necessarily mean they are built to the same tolerances. When building high production .22 caliber rifles like this the tolerances can be very different.

None the less, your new flash hider is very cool and obviously improves the grouping on your rig.

Thanks for sharing

 

[Snyderman]

I changed mine based purely on looks. Well, and the ad claimed that if I ran out of ammo, and it became a knock-down, drag out fight, I could always just gouge the squirrel in the eye with it.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Just a guess here... but you seem to have everything but the kitchen sink clamped onto the 15-22 with the Surefire. Do you have so much on the other 15-22? Rifle weight can make a BIG difference. In any event, you might try swapping muzzle devices on each rifle at the range while leaving everything else alone and compare. My guess is that the muzzle device has little impact. But if it does...

 

[SU17]

sorry if I worded it wrong... forgot to proof read it

1 S&W M&P 15-22

I actually did the Surefire MB556K first and was impressed. Then I took it off and put on the original bird cage that came with it just to see the comparison and see if actually did improve the grouping.

 

[SU17]

you think that is long. The MB556AR was the first design.

more of a competition brake

 

[SU17]

for those not liking the style of this break,

this is the company I used for my AR about the same length as a standard bird cage A1/A2

Battle Comp Enterprises, LLC

unfortunately I can't test it on the M&P 15-22 because the BC 2.0 is pinned on my middy

 

[spleify]

Very cool results then if this was on the same rifle and the only difference was the flash hider.

Cool test, thanks for sharing.

 

[CPTBeaker]

Well it is definitely longer than the stock bird cage flash hider so I could see it adding length and therefore adding to the accuracy.

The added length won't add accuracy because you are not:
- adding to the length of the sight radius (not relevant if an optic is being used)
or
- adding to the length of the barrel (i.e. lengthening the part of the barrel that has rifling)

Once the projectile leaves the crown of the barrel, the muzzle device is no longer going to have an effect on the projectile.

 

[seths]

All I gathered is blah, blah, blah SU17 has a sick looking gun. I think I've seen uglier supermodels...

 

[BELT_FED]

You guys really need to pick up Hatchers Handbook.. Hatcher was the millitaries go to guy for 60 years. If they want to know if you fired a 30 cal 1919 straight up in the air would the bullet be leathal when it returned to earth. He answered the question and the answer is no its not. The book post many of his findings so basicly its a book of facts and a very interesting read. He addresses this very question in his book showing groups fired with and without muzzle devices. And he stated that its not some magical taming of gasses or anything cool like that but simply dampening of vibrations in the barrel.. so called "tuning" if you will... Your break adds weight to the end of the barrel, the weight you added just so happen to be the right weight and is allowing less vibration in the barrel while allowing it to settle in the same place for the next shot. kinda like target shooters adding pads to the end of their stocks to apply slight upwards pressure on the barrel, you are adding a downward pressure to yours

 

[CPTBeaker]

makes sense.

 

[Brett248Vista]

You guys really need to pick up Hatchers Handbook.. Hatcher was the millitaries go to guy for 60 years. If they want to know if you fired a 30 cal 1919 straight up in the air would the bullet be leathal when it returned to earth. He answered the question and the answer is no its not. The book post many of his findings so basicly its a book of facts and a very interesting read. He addresses this very question in his book showing groups fired with and without muzzle devices. And he stated that its not some magical taming of gasses or anything cool like that but simply dampening of vibrations in the barrel.. so called "tuning" if you will... Your break adds weight to the end of the barrel, the weight you added just so happen to be the right weight and is allowing less vibration in the barrel while allowing it to settle in the same place for the next shot. kinda like target shooters adding pads to the end of their stocks to apply slight upwards pressure on the barrel, you are adding a downward pressure to yours

*Ding* We have a winner! Barrels are made out of hard steel, they vibrate when a round goes through the barrel, much like a tuning fork. This particular break seems to me taming the vibration of the barrel. It is working, that much is for sure...

 

[Rustpot]

Are the vibrations from a .22LR going to cause the 15-22 barrel to vary bullet placement 3-4" at distances under 20 yards? That would require almost noticeable flex in the steel, not just a resonance that usually counts for variations in sub-MOA groups at much longer distances.

The added weight may cause a change in vibration frequency, but adding weight to the end of a cantilever usually doesn't add to the stability unless you've stumbled on a near-perfect setup.

My guess is the brake (not a break as that would be bad) is doing its job and directing the gasses in such a way as to stabilize the small amount of muzzle flip that these rifles do have and cause the recoil to act more linearly. The factory flash hider is NOT a brake of any kind. There is a reason these muzzle devices cost a hundred dollars or more and the A1 flash hider can be picked up for less than $5.

Edit to add:
.22 rifles also haven't been traditionally shot in "tactical" scenarios or setups, so I doubt many people have even attempted to put a working brake on one. Especially since when shooting for accuracy you shoot slowly with a heavy barrel where recoil and barrel harmonics are ignored or mitigated.

 

[SU17]

Here guys.. it will explain everything

watch this video of the Surefire MB556K

YouTube - SureFire Muzzle Brake video

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

I'll go the other way and ring the Bonk bell.

While the extra weight and gas direction of the brake may have helped the shooter maintain steadier more consistent aim during 'rapid fire', I have difficulty with the notion there is (as indicated on the targets for comparison) 3-4 inches of shot dispersion caused by barrel harmonics to dampen out at a mere 50 feet.

Since most of these rifles shoot 2in groups at 50 yards, how is it possible to take out 3-4 inches of barrel harmonics at 50 feet?

 

[BELT_FED]

Yes I agree that there is very little vibration in a 22. But look at it from this stand point. You have a piece of plastic sandwiched between two pieces of metal and the part inwhich that stablizes is nearly 16 inches long and you have ahold of the first inch. My money is on the fact that added weight makes the barrel settle to the same point after each shot. (Lowest point of travel) which makes the gun more repeatable. Everytime a rifle is fired the barrel whips this may be very little on the 15/22 but if the barrel settles to a different point everytime its fired it doesn't matter how good the barrel is.. id also say that if a man took a torque wrench and played with the torque on the barrel nut to tune it to the round being fired he would be amazed

 

[Havetahunt]

I'm with ChattPhil. I have a Browning 7Mag with the BOSS so understand barrel harmonics and have tested many o'loads. IMO the results are phenomenal, almost unrealistic at 50 feet. I would like to see the results from a bench under controlled fire. Grrrrr, “Honey I need the check book!!"

 

[reelman]

The added length won't add accuracy because you are not:
- adding to the length of the sight radius (not relevant if an optic is being used)
or
- adding to the length of the barrel (i.e. lengthening the part of the barrel that has rifling)

Once the projectile leaves the crown of the barrel, the muzzle device is no longer going to have an effect on the projectile.

To add to that even if your barrel is longer does not mean it will be more accurate, in fact theoretically a shorter barrel will be more accurate due to the bullet being in the barrels for a shorter time so there is less time for the barrel to move while the bullet is in it.

 

[awake33]

I'm just a n00b here, but have been shootin' rifles for a long time. . .

Seems to me there is much over-thinking taking place here.

The guys said rapid fire, so it would seem pretty simply that muzzle rise/flip/whatever you like to call it is being lessened in the very brief time allowed between shots.

As for barrel length, there is a reason sniper rifles have long barrels. And even at the much lower muzzle velocity of the .22lr, the round has left the rifle behind long before the barrel rises.

And regarding harmonics or vibrations, it is my understanding that these phenomena are more meaningful when measured between controlled shots; a locked down bench rest for sighting or checking accuracy from a bench rest when testing a particular round for example; one has to chalk up an unknown percentage of variance to these effects, the rest being the rifle/shooter/ammo.

So, again, in the OP's scenario, I would have to say it is purely muzzle rise/flip. The gun is obviously moving around so much during rapid fire bursts that I don't see why would you even care about vibration/harmonics?