my beliefs on the M&P accuracy issues

[Jake D]

Full disclosure first: my M&P 9 has a test fire date of August 2010 and is one of the odd ball M&P 9 Tacticals that came from the factory with night sights and just the the threaded barrel, it did not come with a standard barrel and is not a Spec Ops. Second, let us be real and honest here, the average gun owner/armchair cowboy is not capable of holding a 2 inch group at 25 yards with any handgun. Now to my point, I believe the main problem with accuracy with the M&P is the heavy trigger pull/trigger break caused by the factory sear design. This causes shooters to pull their shots, which is why people report being able to hold tight groups at 7-10 yards but not at 25, the pull is magnified at longer distances. The good news is that I believe the Apex hard sear is the fix for the M&P. I installed just the Apex hard sear in mine after following the lead of some on here and dramatically improved my groups. Before I noticed it took a lot of concentration to make sure the front sight did not move while firing because of the heavy trigger pull. After the Apex hard sear holding the front sight still while firing is almost effortless. Just some food for thought.

 

[Prasko]

Crappy trigger and "new" firearm factor are the main reasons for crappy accuracy.

But there was barrel issues with a stretch of 9mms that had crappy accuracy, otherwise S&W wouldn't have changed barrel twist.

 

[hardluk1]

Bad trigger , bad group's ?? Good trigger ,good groups !! Seems practical to me.

 

[ATF]

The M&P is great and I love mine. It's my number one for HD.
However if you want to get the most out of it you need the FULL Apex kit.
The trigger is crappy not just because of the pull, it's also rounded. Why Smith would do his I have no idea. A flat surface encourages straight shooting.

 

[Stratajema]

OP, what is your definition of "heavy trigger pull"?

IMHO, a 6.5 pound trigger pull weight of a M&P gun intentionally made for self defense at a close distance is not unreasonable.

 

[DeathF.above]

I agree with the notion that a lighter, smoother trigger will translate to better accuracy due to less muzzle movement after the shot is fired. It was actually pretty amazing once I installed my dcaek kit how much the new sear and USB helped alleviate that very problem.

 

[keithherrington]

Well, there is more too it than just bad triggers. My first two M&Ps were a 9 with a 4.25" barrel and a 45 with a 4" barrel. From day one the 45 was much, much more accurate than the 9. Since both had crappy triggers (more gritty than heavy) I sent both to the Performance Center and asked them to improve both and make both feel as similar as possible. This they did. When I got them back I found that the 45 was still much more accurate than the 9. True, I also found the accuracy on both had improved, but the accuracy of the 9 was still very poor. So I sent the 9 back again to get a fast twist barrel installed. Upon its return (along with my original barrel) the accuracy had been improved, but it still was not up to the 45's accuracy level. The 9mm ammo I was using was a selection of commercial and handloads all of which performed brilliantly in my other 9mms. What I've been told by those that shoot 9mm in IDPA a lot and have done a lot of load development is that you can get the 9mm to shoot but it is not easy.

 

[hardluk1]

stratajema What do you see wrong with the grittiness found in ever m&p trigger followed by the weight of pull that can vari from handgun to handgun by pounds of weight in the pull. We have two regular M&P and a core. the regular 2 or 5lb 10oz and 7lbs 15oz for a 10 pull average . Stck on that the grittiness found in ever M&P you have a QC issues . I grew up shoot sa/da revolvers and have carried a DA or long pull kahr trigger for 28 years and find the m&p trigger near the bottom of the pile. I also knew going in apex could fix trigger issues. Or you can try s&w cs for a fix .


So whats your view of random pull weights and general gritty trigger pull.


cprher. Is there a pull weight difference before or after S&W CS in your 2 m&p's .

Found the wifes older 9mm compact accuracy is not up to snuff too but her core is good over all. I bought a 40 and it is accurate with 155 and 165 loads that I use .

 

[Stratajema]

So whats your view of random pull weights and general gritty trigger pull.

No argument from me about grittiness of the trigger. It is my belief that most of the grittiness comes from the striker safety block hole being poorly "finished". From what I have learned, in the manufacturing process, S&W drills the hole for the striker safety block after the slide has been fully milled and melonited. The variability of the grittiness from gun to gun yields variability in trigger pull weights. That's my theory.

 

[unclebob]

I guess since I don't own a m&p, I can't speak for them, but why would anyone buy a firearm and then add upgrades to make it work better???

 

[cb4017]

My personal accuracy criteria for a handgun is to be able to shoot my agency's qualification with a perfect score. A tougher test is the FBI 30rd qual. I have a M&P 151215LE 9mm on order that should be at my dealer this week. If I can do both with the gun it will be a keeper.

 

[ATF]

I guess since I don't own a m&p, I can't speak for them, but why would anyone buy a firearm and then add upgrades to make it work better???

The reason is because it's probably the best ergonomically designed polymer pistol available. The advantages of the M&P are numerous. Light weight, high capacity and with the upgrades it is a pleasure to shoot and extremely reliable.

 

[CatSnipah]

Sometimes, the issue is folks trying to do something with a pistol that it just isn't really designed for.

Some folks buy such-n-such a gun and immediately think it should make 2" groups at 100 yards. Not considering their own skill. Not considering the sights, barrel length & rifling, etc.

Not every firearm is built to poke tight holes in paper at long distances.

 

[unclebob]

The reason is because it's probably the best ergonomically designed polymer pistol available. The advantages of the M&P are numerous. Light weight, high capacity and with the upgrades it is a pleasure to shoot and extremely reliable.

That argument could be also used for glock, xd and every other plastic light weight , high capacity, my point is why doesn't smith install apex for a couple of bucks more or do more qc and corner the market instead of boasting lifetime warranty if it don't work send it back??
Or they could could use different pricing methods one for firearms that are proven to work or another cheaper price for ones that may work as designed....

 

[ATF]

That argument could be also used for glock, xd and every other plastic light weight , high capacity, my point is why doesn't smith install apex for a couple of bucks more or do more qc and corner the market instead of boasting lifetime warranty if it don't work send it back??
Or they could could use different pricing methods one for firearms that are proven to work or another cheaper price for ones that may work as designed....

The M&P out of the box is more than sufficient as a PD/HD pistol. Glock owners like to upgrade their triggers and other parts too. I think the real problem is that the M&P is always being compared to all metal guns. A polymer gun trades weight for accuracy. I've shot CZ's which are supposed to be the most accurate out of the box but they gave me no feeling. I do like the character of the M&P despite it's flaws.

 

[hardluk1]

stratajema . Nope not the trigger block hole on mine. One the first thing I tried no my wifes M&P9c followed buy rounds in the trigger block. Its also in the trigger design. Add up all the small desihn issues and the result is a overall porely designed trigger group.

I'm not looking for a 2" 100 yard pistol as catsnipah thinks J.ust smooth function in a handgun.

If a company can smooth up a trigger when sent back why can't they manage to build it that way and change a little more for it. Probably because there not willing to spend the money to develop the parts to begin with. It gives the after market , gunsmiths and engineers something to do !! hehe


If a companies like walther with the ppq and hk vp9 can build lighter smooth trigger pulls in an affordable handguns m&p price should be able to produce a better trigger too .

I do have a couple 3" 100 yards handguns . Revolvers I hunt with .

 

[DeathF.above]

It's all about money. Smith wants to offer an affordable, reliable pistol that will compete in sales with the glock and springfield. And they have done just that. The m&p can easily be improved. If you don't wanna spend eighty bucks to do that then no big deal. Still gonna go bang when you pull the trigger.

 

[hardluk1]

Yep, it will go bang just not as enjoyable as it could be few upgraded parts from apex.

 

[Johnmuratore]

I think the grittiness bothers people more when they read about it on the internet. I could have lived with the triggers on my 3 if they didn't come with the Mass compliant 10.5lb pull. The smooth pull was a bonus.

 

[DocSunShine]

Almost all new complaints of ****ty accuracy are indeed trigger related, however pre 2012 guns with the 1/18.5 twist rate (among a few other subtle differences in barrels) were indeed a real issue with target loads (115), heavier bullets still did well out of those barrels... Trigger is still significantly better than what it was previously.

I owned a 2011 made M&P 45 and pulling that damn trigger was like pulling the sword from the stone. I sold it instead of Apexing it and the new owner loved it except for that damn trigger.