My pawn shop find - I think a Victory 38 - Help identify

[rkcdude]

Hello All...

I tried a new pawn shop today at lunch looking for an older S&W 38 and found this one... He was asking way too high, $445 and we got down to $275 so it came home with me. I am not sure exactly what it is... From what I found online, it seems to be a M&P Victory model from WWII. It does not have the original grips I have found but seems to be in great shape... Just a touch of surface rust in one spot and it's kinda dirty. Bore looks crisp but dirty and everything operates smooth.

So my questions are this...
- When was it made (SN V530xxx and all numbers match on barrel, cylinder, frame all but the grips),
- is it 38 special or 38 S&W,
- what's up with the barrel length (it seems to be 2 1/2" and from what I found SOME came that way. It has the middle of the three ejector rod knurled tips which indicated WWII era,
- it's a deep blue, not parkerized... didn't some come that way
- It has a "p" proof marking which I believe indicated civilian use to protect high value civilian targets during WWII
- It has the plug in the hole where the lanyard was at so I guess it was plugged at some point? Maybe a factory refinish and overhaul? I didn't see any numbers inside the frame with the grips off
- Finally - did I get a deal on it?

Jeff

 

[murphydog]

It is a .38 Victory Model, refinished as you already noted from the original Parkerized-like finish. Many in .38 S & W (originally with 5" barrels) had their barrels shortened and lost the front locking point for the ejector rod, and had their charge holes bored out to take the longer .38 Special. The Special is longer and smaller diameter than the S & W round, so bulged or split cases occur with firing. The P is more likely a proof or inspector's stamp than a special mark.

The easiest way the determine the chambering is if you don't see a ridge or shoulder in the chambers, and if a .38 Special fully seats; if yes to both, it has been altered from .38 S & W. Hope this is helpful.

 

[DWalt]

Yours shipped in Feb or March 1944. You have what is called a "Chopped and Bored" Victory, the latter at least probably. A great many of the British .38/200s had their barrels shortened, were refinished, and the original .38 S&W chambers bored out to accept .38 S&W Special after WWII to spur US mail order sales at a very cheap price. Chamber boring has previously been commented about. There is no doubt whatsoever that the barrel has been shortened, as the front lug is missing, and that it has been refinished. Grips are not original, but they may be worth something by themselves.

I personally wouldn't be interested in purchasing it, as the mutilations performed have rendered it as having no collectible value, only value as a shooter. At least you didn't pay the original outrageous price of $445.

It's always best to know exactly what you are buying before you pull out your billfold. In this case, it's a cheap lesson.

 

[gordonrick]

Jeff - You are not alone. I also bought an old Victory of dubious value without knowing much about it before hand. As it turned out, I probably got my money's worth learning about the old S&W's on that gun and rekindled an interest in revolvers. I later swapped it in as part of a purchase of a better example, but I do kinda miss it.

I believe the "P" is the S&W factory military proof mark.

Many 38/200's were cut down and most had any military acceptance or proof marks ground off, so it is impossible to tell where it might have served. DWalt's ship date estimate is about as close as you'll get without paying for a factory letter.

Most of them went through the British Purchasing Commission under the Lend-Lease program to various Commonwealth countries. Usually, you can tell by the markings if it went to the UK, Australia, Canada, South Africa etc.

I've never seen a split case, but they will bulge (assuming yours is reamed for 38 Special). Since the 38 Special bullet is slightly smaller (.357" vs .360") accuracy may be affected, but with a 2" barrel that is inconsequential.

If you want to replace the lanyard ring, the hole is usually plugged with soft metal (copper I think) and can be [carefully] drilled out if you are handy. Probably not worth the effort on this one.

Shoot it and enjoy it!

Rick

 

[Mack]

No one wants to say so but you did not get a deal, the front locking lug on a S&W serves a purpose, a factory snubbie will have a shorter ejector rod and the lug. Many of the British guns had this mod after the war which pretty much ruined the value even as shooters.

 

[raljr1]

Right Mack, the lug serves to lock the front of the cylinder in place.....so I guess there's also a risk of shaving lead....Dad had an old H&R 22 that shave lead...no fun to shoot while dodging splinters of lead.