My Second and Third Smith

[woodstock31]

How does one tell what model these revolvers are? Both are 38 special. There is a serial number on the butt of each pistol but no model number under the crane like on some model 10's I have seen. The one on top (combat masterpiece?) with adjustable sights and ribbed barrel has been heavily buffed and reblued. There is still evidence of deep pitting under the grips. Mechanically they are both in very good shape with excellant bores. I'm more into the one on the bottom with the original finish (serial # 517***). It has significant finish wear (approximately 70% blueing left) and probably wasn't cleaned for decades but is turning out nicely. It seems awfully similar to my victory model in 38 S&W. What do you think? Thanks!

 

[DCWilson]

Neither gun has a model number stamped on it because both were produced before 1957, when the model number system was ntroduced. You correctly identified the Combat Masterpiece, which you can call a Pre-15 for short because it became the Model 15 when model numbers were assigned. The other gun is a .38 Military & Police Model of 1905/fourth change that shipped in the 1920s. The service stocks without medallions are consistent with that date. The serial number points more narrowly to about 1925-26, but that's just an approximation. S&W had no policy that forced them to ship in serial number order, so a factory letter would be the only way to date it precisely. That gun is a distant predecessor of the Model 10, but it is not really accurate to call it a Pre-10 because details of the action are significantly different. The guns that are essentially identical to the Model 10 were first introduced in 1948.

 

[woodstock31]

Thanks for the reponse! To make sure, both models have ther serial number on the butt of the grip frame and the bottom of the barrel? I have both guns but still need to pay the owner for them. I'm not sure what I should pay for the combat masterpiece. It breaks my heart that it has been heavily refinished but it still should make a great shooter. There was active rust under the grips and on the hammer. The hammer has been altered as well. not only has it been blued, but the checkering has been buffed off and it seems to be thinner in that area as well. I believe I will replace it. The Military and Police will get nothing but some TLC and an occasional diet of some light loads.

Thanks!

 

[murphydog]

Yes, all S & W revolvers of this era have the SNs in those spots, and also on the rear cylinder face. The CM has a decent blue refinish but the metal surfaces have been heavily altered, plus you mentioned needed parts replacement (the hammer was probably rusted/pitted), so I would guess this to be about a $250 gun.

 

[DCWilson]

I would be hard pressed to justify a price of more than $200-250 for the Combat Masterpiece in light of its modifications. It's just a shooter-grade gun now.

The M&P is perhaps worth $350-400. You can't hold it down for its condition, which looks pretty good, but the fact is that these guns exist in the tens of thousands and have no scarcity premium. Only in very high condition, or with original box and accessories, will the value rise above the $400-450 range.

Those old prewar .38s are a pleasure to shoot. I usually feed mine a diet of 148 gr wadcutter match ammo -- low pressure and high accuracy combined, but a little expensive unless you reload.

 

[woodstock31]

Yes the CM is going to be a shooter for sure. Any ideas where I can get correct replacement grips or a new hammer?

The M&P looks better in the pics than in real life but it is my favorite of the two.

 

[mikepriwer]

My advice is to not take the post-WW2 gun. Its been buffed way too
much, so much so that its very obvious. I would not be happy with
that gun. If you really want a post-WW2 gun, there are thousands
of them out there. Life is too short to be disappointed with a
poorly refinished gun, that is not worth all that much to start with.

On the other hand, the pre-WW2 revolver is very nice, and you can
use it for shooting. With gallery loads, it won't hurt it a bit, and as
long as you clean it up properly, the use will not even be noticed.

As David noted, there is no premium for its age, because there is
just too many of them. Nice ones generally sell at fair value, and
with proper care, it will continue to sell at fair value in the future.

Mike Priwer

 

[woodstock31]

Does anyone know if Smith & Wesson K Frame Square Butt grips fit the combat masterpiece? Or where I can find a hammer? Thanks!

 

[OFT II]

The K frame square butt grips are the right ones. The right hammer for the CM may be difficult to find as they only made that style in the late 40s and early 50s. A later hammer will work but though.

 

[DCWilson]

Yes, square butt K-frame stocks are exactly what you want. To be period correct, you want diamond magnas for your gun (magna type stocks with the unchecked diamond around the screw escutcheon).

You can get period-correct hammers from David Chicoine (oldwestgunsmith.com) or Jack First Guns or Poppert's gun parts. Can't recall the links for those last two, but they are easy to find with an internet search.

Also Numrich arms may have a hammer that would work on a 50-year old Combat Masterpiece. The hammer on your gun now was called the Speed Hammer by S&W. You could also get a target hammer with a lower and wider spur.