My small collection - future values

LanceWhite

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In the past few years, I have put together a small representative collection of S & W guns as I come across them. I have a #1 and (2) #2 Armies, a 38 New Departure that is antique, a 1921 I-frame, a couple 1920's M&P's, and my latest gun is a 35 auto. I am at a crossroads of collecting, I need to thin the overall herd of guns (all the way up to modern guns) but am thinking about keeping my Smiths - what does the group think the future will hold for the value of these?
 
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what does the group think the future will hold for the value of these?

In another thread on collecting revolvers, my thoughts are that most collectors are getting old(me included). A few more years down the road and the youngsters will control the market.

Seems they prefer the new style of auto's more than revolvers.
 
I doubt that your older Smiths, as a group, will appreciate significantly unless they are very nice examples.

Collectors of these very old guns are aging, and shrinking in number.

As the market shrinks, demand and value suffer.
 
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One member has predicted that the value of our older/classic S&W collections will approach zero as baby boomers grow old and die off in large numbers and their heirs sell off those collections into a badly flooded market with very little demand from Gen X, Millennials and Gen Z. :confused: :(

I, of course, disagree. :D
 
I am a little younger than some collectors on here( not a baby boomer) and agree the true antique S&W's along with any that shoot obsolete rounds (32rf,30,25 etc.) are not going to see any huge increase invalue unless they are guns that are in exc condition or better. I have recently come to this conclusion and have been favoring the pre war era guns. So most of my future buying will be concentrated towards more common calibers of today such as 44 mag, 357 mag, 38 spcl, 22lr. I do not see these common offerings going away any time soon. Just my humble opinion on the subject.
 
Years ago I had quite a collection of guns started, mostly semi auto, and I thought they would be an investment in case of really bad times. But I got to thinking if times got bad just who was going to have the money to buy my guns.

I sold off any gun that basically just sat in my safe taking up space. I sold ten but I later bought probably another 10. What I have now are basically keepers because I do at least enjoy shooting them even if I don't carry them.
 
In the past few years, I have put together a small representative collection of S & W guns as I come across them. I have a #1 and (2) #2 Armies, a 38 New Departure that is antique, a 1921 I-frame, a couple 1920's M&P's, and my latest gun is a 35 auto. I am at a crossroads of collecting, I need to thin the overall herd of guns (all the way up to modern guns) but am thinking about keeping my Smiths - what does the group think the future will hold for the value of these?

IMHO, THEY ARE CERTAIN TO INCREASE IN VALUE OVER TIME......
 
I used to have a respectable S&W collection of 130+ revolvers. I sold many of them off some 15-20 years ago ( Mainly because I had met my goals and the "searching and buying" part was more fun the the "having" part for many of them.) The prices I sold most of them at are 1/2 their value today. (But more than I paid.) I still buy/ watch an older S&W wheel gun now and then though. I believe the market / prices peaked some 10 years ago and is now flat or declining slightly depending on the rarity, condition and desirability of the particular gun in question. As others indicate, I doubt that reverses much.

That said, I didn't (and still don't) buy any gun as a financial investment. I buy/ keep them for the enjoyment they give me today.
If I want to make money, I invest in the market.
 
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I've been around long enough to see the gun market in all kind of conditions and periods. The way the media makes it sound, people are born in groups and labeled. Actually I have noticed over the years that people are born everyday, all day long and many younger people appreciate the classic and iconic guns of superior quality.
Even I started out buying mediocre shooter type guns.
 
Having collected a pretty large variety of different guns over the last 50 years, there are some things that should be considered when adding guns, IF your concern is values going up.
Buy guns that have good collector interest today. Highly collectable guns will always go up faster than easy to find, and less valuable guns.
Buy the best condition you can, regardless of what it is. Some extremely rare variations will require you buy whatever comes to you. But in more common guns, buy the finest examples, as they'll go up faster than average examples.
If possible, the guns that are easiest to find or load ammo for, are often the guns with a wider interest. Not all collectors shoot, but if the gun appeals to collectors and shooters, it will be much easier to sell. The finest .25 Stevens chambered gun wont be nearly as easy to sell as any gun chambered in a common, shootable caliber.
But don't let value to your heirs totally dictate your gun buying either. It's supposed to be a hobby first and foremost. So buy things that you love, and if your kids sell them too cheap, or don't care for them, that's their problem; not mine.
 
The one thing that you may not be taking into consideration is that the young folks buying the black plastic guns are just that, young. Perhaps as they get to be our age they will become more interested in the finer things and that could include our fine collections. :rolleyes:
 
I used to have a respectable S&W collection of 130+ revolvers. I sold many of them off some 15-20 years ago . . . The prices I sold most of them at are 1/2 their value today. (But more than I paid.) . . .

That is interesting. I have to say that almost everything I have sold to date has sold for more than I paid originally. I think value appreciation has slowed, but not reversed by any means. I wonder how you state the values are half of what they were, but still got more than you paid? It sounds like you bought something at a specific price that you thought was fair and sold for more than you paid. That is appreciation in my book?? Valuation is not an easy number to come up with and many collectors and sellers inflate their expectations by looking at publications like Blue Book and Standard Catalog of Firearms, and of course some use the asking prices found on many gun sales sites.

Using the sources available over the last 65 years, I found that these old worthless revolvers gained just over 7% annually on average. Of course, there were years where where the values grew at over 10% and others that saw only 3% or so. A heck of a lot better than a bank savings account. Is anyone going to get rich by buying a bunch of old guns and selling them years later? Probably not, plus if you factor in the loss of the dollar's value over time, practically nobody has ever made real gains ever.

As Mark Twain once wrote and I have paraphrased - The rumors about the death of collector gun values are greatly exaggerated. The subject of value loss has been stated after every sizeable value gain of just about everything that has ever gained value over time. When I was much younger, I recall that there were articles about what will happen to WWII gun collections, since no one will want them? A few generations later, the same question emerges from the naysayers. Sure some things have peaked and tanked, but those situations were than collector firearms. Beanie Babies is one edxample, but it was simply the result of the law of supply and demand. Everyone seemed surprised when they found out that instead of a "limited" production run of each beanie baby launched, millions of them were actually being sold, so the market collapsed.

Has the rise of values of vintage firearms slowed in the last 10 years, using Supica Nahas SCSW, the numbers support that trend. Will today's shooters who shoot everything black and made of plastic, ever gain an appreciation for early quality made firearms as they improve their discretionary spending situation with age? I believe they will.
 
Have you seen any 1890's or 1920's S&W's in nice condition not selling at auctions? They sell, and usually at reasonable prices. I'd be more concerned about high capacity mag, semi auto, black firearms over the next 20-30 years. Firearms are NOT investments, they are hobby items that you "normally" can get your money back on and "normally" make a little profit while having enjoyed them for many years.
 
I'd be more concerned about high capacity mag, semi auto, black firearms over the next 20-30 years. Firearms are NOT investments, they are hobby items that you "normally" can get your money back on and "normally" make a little profit while having enjoyed them for many years.

^. ^. This! ^. ^.

H Richard nailed it. And, just collect what YOU like and what you can afford and have fun. For investments see a professional ..... this is a hobby.
 
My collecting interests have evolved over time. Back in my college days, it was 1911 type Colt's. Collection grew to over 30. Then on to NFA registered machine guns. Then M1 Garands and 1903 Springfield. Last year, it was High Standard semi autos. Today, it's S & W . Mostly revolvers, but can't leave out the Model 41's or 39/59 either. The hardest thing to do is learning to let go. I can usually afford to have them all, but never afford to keep them all. And, we can't live forever. Sooner or later someone else will have your prized treasures. Enjoy them while you can. Thanks! Mick
 
A few years back I collected U.S.Military weapons (mainly WW II). I had all of the different manufacturers of carbines and Garands. I am down to one of each now. I had all of the manufacturers of the M1911/A1 family from WWI & WW II (except Singer, of course), now none. Also collected heavy barreled .22 target rifles (still have a few). I am seeing all of these items not selling as well or selling for less. Makes me glad I got out when I did. Now I just have items that I truly prize and enjoy to shoot. Make your money in the stock market, but be careful there too.
 
Nobody can know the future years ago (before my time) you could buy Trapdoor Springfields for hardly nothing now nice ones bring over a thousand. Colt GI 1911 were cheap. Years ago I started a small Mauser collection I had a 1871, 71/84, 88 Commission (stepchild) 91 Calvary carbine Gew 98 and a K98 6 rifles in all I sold them this summer for more than double my investment because I felt the time was right and I wanted a classic truck. Quality antique collector guns will always be a safe investment...Oh a picture of my new pride and joy.
 

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There is a factor not really mentioned yet. That factor is society is changing, and the younger folks have less and less interest in guns, and in collecting anything besides money. All collectables are becoming less of a hobby then in the past.


I would not speculate having a great investment future in firearms. I would not buy much having the faith that they are going to make me a bunch of money. My thoughts are buy what you like, and enjoy, and put no stock in their future resale value.


If you still insist on trying to make money off a collectable anything, then buy the scarcest, and highest condition items. Frankly I would wait a couple years to see what this country is turning into before getting to excited about any collectables. Most everything is to unstable at this time. If you can't eat it, drink it, or *^&%^ it , you don't need it right now.
 
What has happened in my collecting is that I have moved into two areas specifically, antique guns and Colt Single Action Army. Both require some cash (one of the antiques I am looking for is a slant-breech Sharps percussion, the SAA I would love to have next is a 44-40 Frontier Six Shooter from the 1880's), and I plan to liquidate a few things. I love my Smiths and would not mind hanging onto them, especially if they might be appreciating some in the next few years. If the values are going to be flat for the foreseeable future, I could sell some of them and a few others. The #1 and one of the #2 Armies would stay regardless - they are among my favorites.
 
, the SAA I would love to have next is a 44-40 Frontier Six Shooter from the 1880's),.

Had my hands on a first year production Frontier in .44-40 one time. Local dealer got it in and it was trashed, missing a few small parts and the hammer was broken. It was going to cost me $250 to purchase. Looked at Turnbull to restore it and their quote was $6,000+ to do it. I decided to pass.
 
I've never had an open ended buget for collecting guns, so as my interests changed, I always had to decide at some point to sell whatever I'd previously been collecting. But I've never lost money when I did sell them off. Occasionally I broke even on a gun or two, and occasionally I did better than I ever imagined.
I've collected S&W handguns, Hi Standard semiauto handguns, pre WWI Marlin lever action rifles, and numerous brands of 1800's single shot rifles. When I did sell off my collection, I never sold all of it, so I've retained a handful of each as I moved on to the next. It's left me with some nice guns and a source of revenue to go towards the next interest.
At my age I probably wont be selling any to fund another area of gun collecting now. I'll stick to what I presently have, and add a piece here or there. Not as interested in how they'll increase in value as I was earlier in life. Now I'm just interested in finding pieces I've wanted for a long time.
Fine guns, or high end guns are all down presently from what they were 5-10 years ago. If one has an interest in high end guns, now is the time to seek them out. In recent years I've purchased guns for 20-30% less than I saw them go for a decade ago. I don't think they'll continue to decline, so they'll likely all sell for more than today's prices after I'm gone.
 
What has happened in my collecting is that I have moved into two areas specifically, antique guns and Colt Single Action Army. Both require some cash...

I'm not necessarily saying that the lack of cash is what is preventing the younger generations from buying antique firearms...after making it through the four years of brainwashing by liberal professors, it's a miracle a college graduate can even look at a firearm with anything but contempt. But, many of these folks are getting out with $200,000+ in student loans. Surely, that must factor into it somewhere.
 
Regardless of the increased value over the past 50 or so years, when calculated with the inflation rates factored in over that same time frame, it is not all sunshine and flowers.

All my life, when collecting, I consider ... how many have I seen in this condition ? How many were manufactured ? How desirable is this model I'm looking at. Then I think value as an investment. Will it maintain or steadily increase in value, at least, to keep up with the inflation ratio ? THEN, there are just some that hit your, personal, "hot" button. When that happens all forethought goes right out the window.

If you can buy a fine quality piece of old world craftsmanship and art at a certain price, enjoy it for 20 years then sell at your cost + the calculated inflation over that same time period, you're doing great.

It should be for passion and love of these fine old S&W's that motivates a purchase. If profit is your main objective, buy savings bonds ... you'll come out ahead in the long run by keep rolling those bonds at maturity.

There is a present glut of mediocre to low quality antiques and collectibles ... a trend that will continue, I feel. The garbage will always be garbage.

The reason ?? All the boomers that grew up on the Lone Ranger and the 100 other cowboy flicks and detective / police serials, including the Dirty Harry movies, are dropping off.

The new generation of gun deprived children in a politically incorrect society that cannot buy their children toy guns but can buy violent killer or human hunting situation video games and war games is rampant.

Plastic is what is desirable by the younger generation. To me, plastic = disposable. I do not believe a plastic gun (even injection mold / catalyzed plastics) will last 50 years without slowly disintegrating. My Snap-On dead blow hammers, and other tools with, less than 40 years old, crumble to dust in the tool box without damage and with proper storage. Granted, the guns are made with different composition but think about it.

Steel, Stainless Steel, Titanium, scandium and other alloys will be around a very long time. Longer than plastic, I feel. But, that's just my opinion because of my love of old world craftsmanship and a Metal lover.

The higher quality guns will hold their value and I believe will continue to rise with certain considerations.

Some of those considerations are as follows:

>> the quantity produced. Naturally, a lesser produced firearm will always be worth more than a mass produced model of similar configuration and features.

>> The finer the condition the more desirable it will be. Add an original box to that and you've got gun-gold !

>> For S&Ws, I feel, all the Models 1-1-1 through 1-1-6 will hold value simply because of scarcity and first revolver of the new S&W Company. (The Volanics were the first Smith & Wesson partnership, to the, New Haven Arms (sold to Oliver Winchester).

>> The Models 1+1/2s through Model 2 (unless military issue) were produced in the 100,000s. Chose the best quality you can find, forget the junkers.

>> 1896s and 1891s, all good. The finer the scarcer, the better.

>> The Model 3s, which are highly desirable will hold value and continue to rise but only in upper conditions. Even a Model 3 that is mechanically excellent but has less finish remaining is very desirable gun. The price will not break the new collector and he can cowboy shoot it (after thoroughly examined and serviced).

The S&Ws were "the" first large caliber cartridge revolvers. 3 years before the 1873 Colt ... and ... had Rollin White been able to retain the patent, you would not have seen a Colt cartridge firing revolver until the late 1890s. Talk about injustices ... President Grant did not allow Rollin White to retain the patent because of issues and problems ordering cartridge firearms during the Civil War.

>>> 1899 M&P and subsequent revision M&Ps. The largest quantity revolver ever produced by S&W in excess of 4 million in all variations 1899 to present, IIRC, (could be more). Choose the finest and more scarce models. Even the lesser condition M&Ps still seem to have life remaining.

>>> VICTORIES and post war Transitions. At one time $50 all you want. Now with deeper research of types and to who issued, another collectors' plus. Very few will be cost big dollars but all have history in World War II, the war that was inevitable where the USA came from behind to be victorious. Thus the name VICTORY.

>> The oddities, e.g. The ladysmiths and Revolving Rifles (which were both essentially failures). The Ladysmiths were too dainty and easily damaged. Then the RRs looked good during engineering but then just didn't work out as well as thought. Holding the front fore-grip the shooter would get sprays of burning powder on his hand. Then they were awkward. Why would you want a RR when you could have a Winchester in .44-40 and a New Model 3 Frontier stuffed in your sash or gun belt. A rifle and a revolver that take the same ammo. Great idea.

>>>> The "N" frame,, pre-war, hand ejectors <<<<

>> Triple locks >>> JUST NOT ENOUGH to go around !

>> 2nd & 3rd Models .44 / .45 HEs>> all nice. Some scarcer than others.

>> Odd calibers on large framed revolvers. Always a plus. (NM3 and HEs)

>> Scarce barrel lengths and sight configurations. Excellent. (NM3 and HEs)

>> REGISTERED MAGNUMS ... do you really need to think about this one ?

>>> U.S. Military Firearms should remain in demand. Some more than others. >>

>> Pre-29, 44 magnums and all other 5 screw N frames. Truly the best here. Some more desirable than others but all great guns.

>> 41 Magnums ... a sleeper. Keep your eye on them.

>> Special Orders (depending on what and, at times, for whom).

>> All the Masterpieces ... it seems only rarely one will need repairs. Great guns, some early post war and pre-war more desirable. .32 Long scarce.

>> The J-Frames, here's a clique of hard-core collectors. Reasonably priced to higher priced scare productions. All you want, just look.

>> Stainless Steel S&Ws have been gaining popularity in epidemic proportions the past 20 years. Scare models and Performance Centers a plus.

>> S&W 39 series, including 2nd and 3rd generation. Still going strong.

>> MODEL 41 and 46, the older the finer the scarcer the better. Hold value well.

>> MODEL 52s, historically have always held value except about 10 years ago took a momentary dip in popularity then rebounded right back.

>> IT JUST GOES ON AND ON

Also, for many decades, factory refurbished S&Ws were frowned upon by serious collectors but in this cosmetically perfect world we live in have accelerated in value like I never thought possible. I never turned down a Factory S&W refurbished revolver if the price was right and the gun was gorgeous.

I'm tired now ... you guys continue, please.

Collecting antique S&Ws is far from over, just choose wisely and choose the best condition you can find.

Best regards, Sal
 
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Regardless of the increased value over the past 50 or so years, when calculated with the inflation rates factored in over that same time frame, it is not all sunshine and flowers.

All my life, when collecting, I consider ... how many have I seen in this condition ? How many were manufactured ? How desirable is this model I'm looking at. Then I think value as an investment. Will it maintain or steadily increase in value, at least, to keep up with the inflation ratio ?

If you can buy a fine quality piece of old world craftsmanship and art at a certain price, enjoy it for 20 years then sell at your cost + the calculated inflation over that same time period, you're doing great.

It should be for passion and love of these fine old S&W's that motivates a purchase. If profit is your main objective, buy savings bonds ... you'll come out ahead in the long run by keep rolling those bonds at maturity.

There is a present glut of mediocre to low quality antiques and collectibles ... a trend that will continue, I feel. The garbage will always be garbage.

The reason ?? All the boomers that grew up on the Lone Ranger and the 100 other cowboy flicks and detective / police serials, including the Dirty Harry movies, are dropping off.

The new generation of gun deprived children in a politically incorrect society that cannot buy their children toy guns but can buy violent killer or human hunting situation video games and war games is rampant.

Plastic is what is desirable by the younger generation. To me, plastic = disposable. I do not believe a plastic gun (even injection mold / catalyzed plastics) will last 50 years without slowly disintegrating. My Snap-On dead blow hammers, and other tools with, less than 40 years old, crumble to dust in the tool box without damage and with proper storage. Granted, the guns are made with different composition but think about it.

Steel, Stainless Steel, Titanium, scandium and other alloys will be around a very long time. Longer than plastic, I feel. But, that's just my opinion because of my love of old world craftsmanship and a Metal lover.

The higher quality guns will hold their value and I believe will continue to rise with certain considerations.

Some of those considerations are as follows:

>> the quantity produced. Naturally, a lesser produced firearm will always be worth more than a mass produced model of similar configuration and features.

>> The finer the condition the more desirable it will be. Add an original box to that and you've got gun-gold !

>> For S&Ws, I feel, all the Models 1-1-1 through 1-1-6 will hold value simply because of scarcity and first revolver of the new S&W Company. (The Volanics were the first Smith & Wesson partnership, to the, New Haven Arms (sold to Oliver Winchester).

>> The Models 1+1/2s through Model 2 (unless military issue) were produced in the 100,000s. Chose the best quality you can find, forget the junkers.

>> 1896s and 1891s, all good. The finer the scarcer, the better.

>> The Model 3s, which are highly desirable will hold value and continue to rise but only in upper conditions. Even a Model 3 that is mechanically excellent but has less finish remaining is very desirable gun. The price will not break the new collector and he can cowboy shoot it (after thoroughly examined and serviced).

The S&Ws were "the" first large caliber cartridge revolvers. 3 years before the 1873 Colt ... and ... had Rollin White been able to retain the patent, you would not have seen a Colt cartridge firing revolver until the late 1890s. Talk about injustices ... President Grant did not allow Rollin White to retain the patent because of issues and problems ordering cartridge firearms during the Civil War.

>>> 1899 M&P and subsequent revision M&Ps. The largest quantity revolver ever produced by S&W in excess of 4 million in all variations 1899 to present, IIRC, (could be more). Choose the finest and more scarce models. Even the lesser condition M&Ps still seem to have life remaining.

>>> VICTORIES and post war Transitions. At one time $50 all you want. Now with deeper research of types and to who issued, another collectors' plus. Very few will be cost big dollars but all have history in World War II, the war that was inevitable where the USA came from behind to be victorious. Thus the name VICTORY.

>> The oddities, e.g. The ladysmiths and Revolving Rifles (which were both essentially failures). The Ladysmiths were too dainty and easily damaged. Then the RRs looked good during engineering but then just didn't work out as well as thought. Holding the front fore-grip the shooter would get sprays of burning powder on his hand. Then they were awkward. Why would you want a RR when you could have a Winchester in .44-40 and a New Model 3 Frontier stuffed in your sash or gun belt. A rifle and a revolver that take the same ammo. Great idea.

>>>> The "N" frame,, pre-war, hand ejectors <<<<

>> Triple locks >>> JUST NOT ENOUGH to go around !

>> 2nd & 3rd Models .44 / .45 HEs>> all nice. Some scarcer than others.

>> Odd calibers on large framed revolvers. Always a plus. (NM3 and HEs)

>> Scarce barrel lengths and sight configurations. Excellent. (NM3 and HEs)

>> REGISTERED MAGNUMS ... do you really need to think about this one ?

>>> U.S. Military Firearms should remain in demand. Some more than others. >>

>> Pre-29, 44 magnums and all other 5 screw N frames. Truly the best here. Some more desirable than others but all great guns.

>> 41 Magnums ... a sleeper. Keep your eye on them.

>> Special Orders (depending on what and, at times, for whom).

>> All the Masterpieces ... it seems only rarely one will need repairs. Great guns, some early post war and pre-war more desirable. .32 Long scarce.

>> The J-Frames, here's a clique of hard-core collectors. Reasonably priced to higher priced scare productions. All you want, just look.

>> Stainless Steel S&Ws have been gaining popularity in epidemic proportions the past 20 years. Scare models and Performance Centers a plus.

>> S&W 39 series, including 2nd and 3rd generation. Still going strong.

>> MODEL 41 and 46, the older the finer the scarcer the better. Hold value well.

>> MODEL 52s, historically have always held value except about 10 years ago took a momentary dip in popularity then rebounded right back.

>> IT JUST GOES ON AND ON

Also, for many decages, factory refurbished S&Ws were frowned upon by serious collectors but in this cosmetically perfect world we live in have accelerated in value like I never thought possible. I never turned down a Factory S&W refurbished revolver if the price was right and the gun was gorgeous.

I'm tired now ... you guys continue, please.

Collecting antique S&Ws is far from over, just choose wisely and choose the best condition you can find.

Best regards, Sal

Sal,

I guess I should have bought the Colt SAA .44-40. Guess where I found it?

AJ
 

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