My turn for the A/C to break!

[snubbyfan]

We "fixed" our A/C by just not having any. We do have a coupla fans that we turn on from time to time though.

I used to work as a repair tech at the RubberMaid Commercial Products. The experience helps me keep the stuff in the house working.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

We "fixed" our A/C by just not having any. We do have a coupla fans that we turn on from time to time though.

SWMBO and I lived in the farm house for 30-31 years. Lots of windows and 10 foot ceilings. When we bought it, it was surrounded by large walnut and maple trees. I installed ceiling fans in the dinning room, kitchen and Master BR. We never needed A/C. About 1995 we started loosing the shade trees. The last came down in an ice storm at Christmas 2003 and left us without power for 11 days. Since then the house got unbearably warm in July and August. We didn't notice the heat and cold in our 20's as we do in our 60's!

We survived this break down because we installed ceiling 2 fans and have a couple box fans we push air around with! I still have a generator, but in a prolonged outage it won't power the A/C. I doubt that I'll upgrade my preparedness to include A/C in times of disaster! But SWMBO is much happier at medium temperatures!

Ivan

 

[Franklin]

How do you test the capacitor?

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

Those cheap little pocket meters work great, but are cheaply made. Early 80's the company I worked for issued me a new Fluke 75. First digital meter I ever worked with. When I left they didn't ask for it back! I still have it and it works like the day I got. It doesn't look like the day I got it though.

I always had cheap multi meters, because the got stomped. dropped, electrocuted, and stolen. But my Amp meter was of good quality but lowest end. I bought a discontinued model in 1975 and it looks like 1950's technology. It is smaller than a child's hand and only 2 functions: Amps and Volts AC. It will slide right through the jumble of wires a 3 stage electric furnace contains. Some of my men had Fluke's smaller units, but they were too large to easily work on the units! The old meter still work and looks the same as when I bought it!

Ivan

 

[rwsmith]

The capacitor gone......

The capacitor is gone. That is music to my ears.

The compressor is gone. That is NOT music to my ears.


You did great. I'd turn that job into a week at least and then end up calling the service guy.

FORTUNATELY, our are very straight up after dealing with criminals for years.

 

[STCM(SW)]

I get VOM from Harbor Freight free with any thing I buy with a coupon.
Have several laying around unopened. Work great....
And I have worked in electrical, electronics and computers for over 40 years.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

How do you test the capacitor?

The simplest way to test line voltage capacitors is:

1)Turn power off and remove the wires.

2)put a screwdriver across the terminals, so you don't shocked!

3) put the multi meter on the 100 or 1000 ohms setting and put one lead to a terminal, then briefly touch the other lead to the opposite terminal. Reverse and repeat. If the cap is good the meter will have a momentary spike (at least the second time). If bad (called "Open") it dose nothing.

This is all you really need. I bought a $5 tester in the 70's that also check for "Leaking" circuits, you may as well replace the cap. because it will "Open" soon.

Some multi function capacitors will have 3 set of terminals. There is sometimes a bleed resistor across 2 sets of terminals, I have never seen it being necessary to replace the resister if you replace the capacitor.

The are 2 types of motor capacitors: Run and Start. you have to replace them with the same type! TO tell the apart, remember this simple rule: Round is not run! (44 years after learning it, it still works and still sounds goofy!)

Lastly, there are "Hard start Kits", these are just add-on start capacitors. I went to service an A/C and it didn't sound right! It had 4 Hard start kits in series! I removed all of them and then serviced the system as normal. None were necessary! I think they are often sold just to raise the price on the bill!!

Ivan

 

[GaryS]

With the help of a friend who had gone through it a month before and YouTube, I was able to diagnose that my capacitor/starter was fried. It was a 90+ degree day and about 4:00PM.

There is a plumbing supply house about ten minutes from my house. I drove there only to find out that they had none in stock that met the specs for my unit.

As it happened, there was a guy standing there getting some stuff for the next day's job. He GAVE me a capacitor/starter that would work. I didn't have any cash on me and he said he'd trust me to come back and leave the money with the counter man.

Neither the counter man nor the AC tech knew me and as far as he knew, he might have just given away a part he'd need tomorrow.

I went back home, put the starer/capacitor in a cool air started to flow. I grabbed $40.00 out of my gun cash envelope and drove back to the shop. The guy was gone, but I had his name and wrote in an envelope and put the money inside.

I still have his card and guess who I'm going to call if my AC needs real work?

I certainly lucked out that day.

 

[LVSteve]

I have no Idea how much they charge per pound, but for R-22, it should be a FEW $ per pound. Find out up front! There is no negotiation on the price, just find someone else if you are being ripped off!

Ivan

R-22 is anything from $70 to $130/lb in this city. If a repair is being made on a home warranty contract then reuse of recovered R-22 is not permitted. Oh, and the warranty company will only cover new stuff up to $10/lb. Buddy at work is going through this process right now.

 

[LVSteve]

Those capacitors are nasty little critters. I'm sure my HVAC guy saved me a lot of grief this summer replacing everything on my unit.

When the honest HVAC tech comes calling...

 

[paulh]

Ivan: Refrigeration operates on the same principles only less Freon. The only time I see frost back on the suction line into the compressor is if it's over charged.

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

I am truly blessed as I have an honest auto mechanic, plumber and HVAC man. Honest to the point where if they tell me I need "X" than so it is. In small towns word gets around quickly about who is good and honest ans who will screw you. I've known these guys for years and they are all poor schlubs like me who just want to do an honest job for their clients/customers and get paid a fair price. QUite refreshing really.
As for me, I quit doing my own HVAC, plumbing and auto work years ago. For me it was just a time issue.
Still do my own boat work though-that's theraputic

 

[nachogrande]

THE VERDICT IS IN.

HOPEFULLY the diagnosis is correct, a sticking thermal expansion valve & ALL that goes along with it. A 4 wrench rating on the difficulty scale, I'll pass. R22 will no longer be available here in a year or so & ONLY licensed HVAC guys can buy it, or many parts. Currently using 410 refrigerant. 799$ out the door. 82 degrees & 90% humidity (inside) @ 10 AM, GOD BLESS AIR CONDITIONING.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

Ivan: Refrigeration operates on the same principles only less Freon. The only time I see frost back on the suction line into the compressor is if it's over charged.

In the 70's, I did a little refrigerator repair in the apartments. Lots of people stabbed their freezer instead of defrosting it!

When the US left R-12 and went to a zillion different coolants, I didn't even try to follow in repairs! They were using Propane (R-2000) for a while and that seemed to be a good place to not be!

I'm doing Environmental clean up now. So I have to follow the company speal about Ozone and CFC's & CCFC's, but personally that is all based on incomplete junk science! One good volcano eruption puts off more CFC's than mankind has made since their commercial discovery! Where is the ozone hole now? filled back in by the natural ozone factory; Lightning!

R-22 has a higher boiling temp, so it is better for household cooling (I've seen window unit from the late 60's-early 70's that were R-12 but very few!) I also know that R-22 systems operate at several time the pressure of R-12 systems. It could be worse, my mother-in-law's house had a Natural Gas powered A/C. That and the N.G. refrigerators use forms of ammonia as the refrigerant! (YUCH!!!) But extremely low pressure. That's the stuff my granddad worked with. He probably never saw a can of R-12 or 22!

By the way $130 per hour sounds like good money if you can keep busy.

Ivan

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

HOPEFULLY the diagnosis is correct, a sticking thermal expansion valve & ALL that goes along with it. A 4 wrench rating on the difficulty scale, I'll pass. R22 will no longer be available here in a year or so & ONLY licensed HVAC guys can buy it, or many parts. Currently using 410 refrigerant. 799$ out the door. 82 degrees & 90% humidity (inside) @ 10 AM, GOD BLESS AIR CONDITIONING.

I have never worked with the R-400 series refrigerants. I was hired to keep older systems running, so the could avoid the new stuff! R-400 runs at not quite double the pressures of R22. But the compressors are the same; same technology, same part numbers sometimes! On A/C's it with take several years off the life! But the Feds say it only has to last 5 years! Around here, we have lots of heat pumps, those are pretty much year round items. Guys I talk to say 7 years is a common failure rate! Same for hot climate A/C's. R-400 is a salesman's dream come true!

R-22 will still be sold in the US. It will be recycled R-22! A customs man told me the #1 smuggled item, after drugs, in 2005 was R-22 from India, That is going to get worse!

BTW: about reusing your refrigerant that they reclaimed. The EPA regs say it can be reused only on the same property. I had 2 reclamation tanks, one for contaminated and one for reusable. That saved me some good money from 1992 to 2006. Just the cost of the tank and some filters!

Ivan

 

[Tex1001]

I have no Idea how much they charge per pound, but for R-22, it should be a FEW $ per pound. Find out up front!

My cost for R22 was $40.00/30lb a few years ago. A 30lb keg now COSTS ME $712 wholesale, and it goes up daily. To me that's more than a few bucks per pound.
Ivan, I think that you are extremely lucky repairing your unit with two run caps. When a run cap blows, run amps double or triple, burning out a motor's run windings in a very short time.
You should buy a lottery ticket.
_______________________
I don't have Alzheimer's- My wife had me tested.

 

[Tex1001]

R-400 is a salesman's dream come true!

Very true!
R 410a head pressures on a 95F day are around 50% higher for a comparable R 22 unit on the same day.
Ozone Depletion Potential (ODP) is a relative measurement. If we assign R 22 an ODP of 1, the ODP of the old R 12 is 20. R 12 is 20 times more harmful to the ozone than R 22. ODP of R 410a is zero but operating pressures are VERY high.
We've had R 134a around for years, its ODP is also zero, its pressures are more in line with R 22, but for some reason we ignore it for HVAC use.

_______________________
I don't have Alzheimer's- My wife had me tested.

 

[Rustyt1953]

This thread got me motivated.

It has been unbearably hot and the AC has been laboring. We have cottonwoods here so I went out with the power washer and peeled an Alpaca sweater off the condenser fins.

If anybody has any beef they want aged, I'm your huckleberry.

 

[Tex1001]

How do you test the capacitor?

Even the cheepie digital volt/ohmmeters all have a CAP measurement now. Readout in microfarads.

A run cap in a motor that's up to speed works like a supercharger for the motor. In a 240 volt unit, back EMF across the run cap will be around 270 to 340 volts. This translates to a corresponding run current reduction for the motor.
It seems like magic. Nikola Tesla was a true genius.

_______________________
I don't have Alzheimer's- My wife had me tested.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

My cost for R22 was $40.00/30lb a few years ago. A 30lb keg now COSTS ME $712 wholesale, and it goes up daily. To me that's more than a few bucks per pound.
Ivan, I think that you are extremely lucky repairing your unit with two run caps. When a run cap blows, run amps double or triple, burning out a motor's run windings in a very short time.
You should buy a lottery ticket.
_______________________
I don't have Alzheimer's- My wife had me tested.

When I started in 1974, R-12 was 17 cents a pound and R-22 was 19 or 20. This was an unbrand, not genuine DuPont Freon! It has been 8 or more years since I picked any R-22 up for my company or the one I worked for after that. Last 30# jug I bought was $70, again an unbrand. My main supply house carried DuPont and it was 25 to 30% more!

I bought a lottery ticket last weekend and I'm still in the condo instead of my own privet mountain! But my A/C still works.

It has been my experience that A/C units are pretty durable. The problem is that idiots keep running them when they need repaired! They abuse it for a few weeks of fair weather, then wonder why you need to get major parts on the hottest day of the year and every supply house for 150 mile is sold out and the factory is on back-order! Although, one company I worked for had very deep pockets. They had 75 complexes in Central Ohio, the one I was at was their Flagship! It had 514 very expensive units. When I arrived in December that had a 2 car garage full of brand new compressors, fan motors, and whole units (several each of 3 to 5 ton Heat Pumps) That was the dream part of working there! The tenants were dumb enough to make house payment size rent and demanded to be treated like royalty! (Best unit was 2 huge BR, 2.5 bath, 2car garage, view of the lake from every window: 2200 Sq. Ft. = $2700 pre month! My brother had a Executive rental home business, 2200 Sq, Ft., 4 BR , 2+2 half baths, 2 car garage, but no lake + $1800 similar neighborhood & rent to own option.) The tenants had big wallets and very foul mouths. The next place I worked was a mentally ill housing company. I never got cussed out as bad by the crazies as but the over privileged!

Ivan