My Webley .455

[Oaklands]

My dad bought this off a state trooper along with a model 58 .41 magnum about 35 years ago. We have had this gun all these years, and I just had to fire it. Ordered some .455 shells and took it to the range to fire about 18 rounds through it. It was accurate and a real pleasure to shoot.

I have the original grips with the hook on the bottom. Someone told us in the past it was for night watchmen to be able to carry lanterns while holding their guns. Don't know if that is correct or not.

Anyway, I thought I would share some pics. When you open the cylinder up it has 1541 and on the back of the cylinder is the number 618. I apologize for the size of the pics, I did not know how to make them icons.

 

[jimmyj]

Revolver is a Smith and Wesson Large Frame Revolver.
Caliber of this Revolver is .455 Webley.
The "Hook" at the bottom of the grip is a "Lanyard Ring" for attaching a cord that attaches to the lanyard and the other end of the cord is a loop that going around the shooters neck or shoulder.
Your Revolver is likely a Military sidearm.

 

[Gary7]

A Triplelock in 455 Webley is rather rare isn't it?

 

[Dragon88]

The fact that this 455 Webley hasn't been converted adds to the value. Congrats that is a nice piece.

 

[Oaklands]

I had to do some research on what a triple lock is. I found it and yes it is. I do not plan on ever parting with this gun, but out of curiosity, can anyone give me a ballpark on what it might be worth. The reason I am asking, is in case I wanted to add extra insurance on it.

Thanks to everyone for educating me and the compliments on the gun.

 

[44 special Dave]

I believe there were approx. 5,666 triplelocks made in .455 cal.

There was a separate runs of 5,000 and 666 (could be slightly higher or lower) were assembled from triplelocks that were going to be originally 44 specials.

There is serial number duplication on some(or all, I'm not sure) of the triplelocks from these two runs.

As for value, while more triplelocks were made in 44 special as opossed to 455, the 44 specials seem to be more more desirable. I'll let more knowlegable "pricing" folks chime in as I'm out of touch with prices these days.

I know an average triplelock in 44 spe. would likely bring $1000-$1500.

Hard to tell from the lighting in your photos, but the finish looks original.

Of likely the serial number is 618 (as on the cylinder). To be sure the bottom of the grip shouls have a serial # as well. The number you see when the cylinder is open is likely a parts assembly number. Another place to look for a serial number is inside the ejector shroud when you have the cylinder open.

Overall nice gun. Oh your original post mentioned a model 58 as well. Nice pair.

Dave

 

[Jack Flash]

Prices for triplelocks have been skyrocketing. It used to be that the .455 Webley TL was the red-haired stepchild of TLs, due to the odd-ball caliber... so it went for the least money.

I think that is going away, however, as people are buying them to collect them, not shoot them, so what difference does its chambering make (at least as long as it is original)?

In your shoes, I would insure it for at least $2,000, but I don't know if you could replace it for that. I saw one in 98% condition on a well-known collector's website with an asking price of almost $4,000. The value of yours depends of course on condition and originality.

I would love to see pictures that show all the markings. I think I detect "crossed pennants" (a British proof mark) on the frame near the barrel. It may well have served in WWI. If you can't get pictures, a good verbal description of the markings is the next best thing.

Congrats on a great revolver with some real collector value!

 

[44 special Dave]

Jack chimed in and is probably closer in value estimate, especailly for insurance purposes.

However I think $4,000 for a 455 triplelock is pretty crazy. There's always some increase in value for a gun with "provenance". That is one that can be documented as having been owned by a ranking officer that saw action in WWI.

Still curious as to whether serial number 618 shows up in other parts of the gun. All matching serial numbers are important to the overall value of the gun.

Dave

 

[DCWilson]

You could sell that gun to anybody for $1500 in the next five minutes and for quite a bit more if you were willing to wait a few days for a buyer. Listen to Mr. Flash about rarity; these things really are going up in value (though I think the $4000 price tag was over-reaching). First of all, there were only about 20,000 Triple Locks made before the complicated and expensive additional production costs forced discontinuation of the pattern. Most are in .44 Special and were made for commercial sale, but as you heard from Dave, about 6000 were produced under a British contract in .455. The .455s were separately numbered, so yours is one of the first few hundred made. It probably dates to October of 1914.

You know that those are not the original stocks. If you remove them, you should find additional proof marks under the wood on the left side.

The 1451 would be a process control number stamped on the frame under the yoke. Ignore it. As Dave said, the serial number is 618, which you should also see stamped inside the ejector shroud under the barrel and on the butt of the gun once you get the stocks off. It will also be in a couple of other places that are harder to see.

You are extremely fortunate to have this gun. I lucked into a .455 TL a few months ago (S/N 358, so another early one) that I got for a little under a thousand. It is in similar condition but was converted to .45 Long Colt after returning from Great Britain. It is very cool that you have an unmodified British contract TL. Congratulations.

Here's a pic of mine to keep your gun company. These are the original stocks, so this is what yours looked like when it shipped.

 

[Ballarat]

Thanks for the pics gents, they are truely beautiful examples. Have been keeping my eyes open for a long time for a triple lock, but few and far between in Australia. 44spl or original 455 would be fine.

 

[Jack Flash]

Dave,

You and I posted about the same time so I didn't see your comments until after I posted. Still, I personsally would certainly insure it for $2,000. I think that $1,000 to $1,500 may be more like the price range for one that has been converted to .45 ACP or .45 Colt or has serious condition issues. Just my opinion and I've been known to be wrong at least once.

As for the $4k figure, this is the asking price for one on-line. I did not say they are going like hotcakes for that price, but I'll bet someone eventually pays it. That "someone" will have deeper pockets than I!

Note that Mr. Oaklands stated that he has the original stocks and butt swivel. If the finish is original (a big "if" but it looks like it may be from the pix), well, that really enhances the value. So few of these have survived in original condition... when a collector does encounter one, he manages to find the money one way or another.

 

[Oaklands]

Thank you for the replies. I will take it to work with me today and take the grips off. Also, I will take some close up pics to post.

 

[Jack Flash]

Super! We all love pix!

One thing to make sure about:
You said you shot some .455 with it recently. I am hoping the stuff you fired is / was modern stuff, like Hornady or the like.

Please beware that what the Brits used to shoot in these back in the day was highly corrosive / erosive. Not to mention that the old surplus rounds are probably worth something in their own right to an ammo collector.

A thorough but gentle cleaning would not hurt, no matter what you shot in it.

 

[Oaklands]

Yes it was Hornady I shot. All my guns get a good cleaning after going to the range.

I took the grips off and the serial matches the back of the cylinder at #618. I brought my camera to work and wouldn't you know, as soon as I fired it up it said the batteries were low. Will get some later today.

There is a small area of rust on the outside of the barrel at the end on the left hand side. I have rubbed it down with some oil, but it needs more protection. What would any of you suggest? I was thinking about applying a small amount of Naval jelly to the area. I know it will turn black but it is supposed to keep the rust in check. I don't want to do any sanding. Thoughts?

Thank you.

 

[nicky4968]

Do not apply naval jelly. it will remove the bluing and will pit the steel.
for now, just some remoil or the like until you can have it evaluated.
no steel wool, either.

 

[Jack Flash]

Glad to hear you didn't shoot some of that nasty old cordite fodder through it. Hornady or Fiocchi shouldn't cause much worry.

I don't know anything about Naval Jelly, so I will defer to Nicky on that. He is also right that over enthusiastic cleaning may do more harm than good.

If it was mine, I would oil it and perhaps put a dab of gun grease on the rusty spot, then wait for an expert to chime in with furthur clean up directions.

 

[deadin]

Oaklands,
I have probably a “shipping box” brother of your .455 TL. Mine is serial #718 and was shipped from the factory on 10/21/1914 and sent to Remington Arms UMC, NY,NY. (They were the purchasing agents for the British Gvmt.)
As an aside, its “duplicate” serial numbered gun was a .44 Special shipped in 1908.

Now, for the good and bad on mine….

Good: It’s still in .455 and it’s in pretty nice shape

Good: It’s been engraved with the original owner’s name. (See pictures)

Good: I have it's original holster.

Bad: At some later time the name was removed by taking a shallow end mill cut across the name. The name has been recovered by using a bead blaster to raise the lettering. Unfortunately, the masking done around the cut wasn’t large enough to protect some of the finish from the beads. (See pictures)

Good: I have documented the original owner as a Doctor in the Royal Army Medical Corps that served in a Field Ambulance (our equivalent to a forward aid unit) in France from 1915 until 1918. He was once “Mentioned in Despatches” and was later awarded the Military Cross.

I’m still trying to track him after the war, but am not having much luck, so far.

Anyway, what’s the general opinion? Is the partially messed up finish offset by the provenance? Does the combination add to or detract from value?

 

[DCWilson]

Dean, I think it's a zero sum situation. Too bad the finish was compromised, but the recovered name of the original carrier is a big plus. If you can get other details on his post-war life, that would just make the total package that much more appealing.

The loss and recovery of the name is now part of the history of the revolver.

 

[Oaklands]

Deadlin,

I plan on getting the original paperwork from S&W. However, that will probably be as far as I can go since there is no name engraved in mine. It is neat owning a piece of history from WW I.

 

[Oaklands]

Here are the other pictures requested.

Shows the Triple Lock.

Shows the model number

The serial number on the frame

The serial number on the back of the cylinder and marking. Also has a marking at the base of the barrel.

Thanks to everyone for the helpful information.