Wondering if anyone here neck turns thier rifle brass.
If you do, then why and what equipment do you use.
If you don't , then why not.
Thanks
If you do, then why and what equipment do you use.
If you don't , then why not.
Thanks
Neck turning rifle brass
- Thread starter fordson
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Forester trimmer and usually it is only done when reforming brass from another caliber.
A neck micrometer can show you if your brass is concentric and if not so then the bullet is entering the chamber in a less than perfectly square manner. Most of us cannot shoot well enough to measure the difference neck turning for centering fixes.
A neck micrometer can show you if your brass is concentric and if not so then the bullet is entering the chamber in a less than perfectly square manner. Most of us cannot shoot well enough to measure the difference neck turning for centering fixes.
Hasbeen1945
Absent Comrade
If you want to go the extra mile. I use K&M tools. For factory rifles all you do is true up the brass. That is just to take the high side off. I use a RCBS case master to measure thickness. If you remove to much, you will loose neck tension on your bullet. Neck turning is required on some tight neck chambers.
DWalt
Member
Most bench rest shooters will turn case necks more for wall thickness uniformity than anything else. If you are forming brass for caliber B from caliber A brass, it may, or may not, be necessary to thin the case necks depending on how much you squeeze the case and change the neck diameter. I have a Forster neck trimmer. It is always better to turn the outside of the neck than to ream the inside if it is necessary to thin the necks. You also need a tubing micrometer to measure wall thickness. I made my own.
I use a Foster set up but I only do my 30-06 and 22-250 cases
since they need the added accuracy down range.
As mentioned good measuring equipment is needed......
and a little bit goes a long ways, don't go crazy removing brass from your cases.
There is inside and outside neck trimmers so you will need to read up
on what and why each is done or if needed in your quest.
Some prefer one brand name case over the others but just try
to get a lot of one type and stay with them, for best results.
Trimming is only part of the accuracy program.
Primers, bullets, powders, OAL and fps are the other parts of the puzzle.
Have fun.
since they need the added accuracy down range.
As mentioned good measuring equipment is needed......
and a little bit goes a long ways, don't go crazy removing brass from your cases.
There is inside and outside neck trimmers so you will need to read up
on what and why each is done or if needed in your quest.
Some prefer one brand name case over the others but just try
to get a lot of one type and stay with them, for best results.
Trimming is only part of the accuracy program.
Primers, bullets, powders, OAL and fps are the other parts of the puzzle.
Have fun.
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Accuracy improvement is not the only reason to turn necks. Some rifles with minimum chambers often require neck turning as a safety factor. With most factory rifles, however, neck turning is not usually required, but repeated heavy (but safe) loads may eventually cause a neck to thicken and turning will be necessary.
Cases normally only require minimal turning, maybe two-thirds of the neck will have brass removed. You can turn too much and ruin a case.
The general rule has been that if you can insert a bullet into the neck of a fired, unsized cased, there is adequate clearance and no neck turning is required. That's true, but, as brass ages, it loses some elasticity and a case neck may not "spring back" (if that's a proper reference) after firing, preventing the insertion of a bullet.
In such a situation, it may be best to do a chamber cast to get an exact measurement of the neck area and proceed from there.
I've turned case necks for a long time using a Forster tool. I've never inside reamed a neck and don't see a reason to ever do so, but there are exceptions to everything.
Cases normally only require minimal turning, maybe two-thirds of the neck will have brass removed. You can turn too much and ruin a case.
The general rule has been that if you can insert a bullet into the neck of a fired, unsized cased, there is adequate clearance and no neck turning is required. That's true, but, as brass ages, it loses some elasticity and a case neck may not "spring back" (if that's a proper reference) after firing, preventing the insertion of a bullet.
In such a situation, it may be best to do a chamber cast to get an exact measurement of the neck area and proceed from there.
I've turned case necks for a long time using a Forster tool. I've never inside reamed a neck and don't see a reason to ever do so, but there are exceptions to everything.
I trim, outside neck turn, primer hole uniform, and clean primer pockets on all My rifle brass. Noticeble difference in 22-250, not so much in 300 Weatherby. It makes me feel good that I have done everything to enhance accuracy and when I miss I know it's Me. I use Forster trimmer and neck sizer.
elpac3
Member
Just started neck turning about a year or so ago.
Neck turning .270 and .222 brass when it goes more than .020 out of round. Using an RCBS bench mount neck turn tool with an RCBS concentricety gage.
.270 brass generally runs about .013 neck wall thickness. Will take it as low as .0125 to "get it round". Necks generally seem to vary .013 - .015, in which case I turn them down to .013 to get rid of the high spots. Not really critical in a hunting rifle, makes more difference in long range cartridges.
Maybe not really necessary but it is fun.
Neck turning .270 and .222 brass when it goes more than .020 out of round. Using an RCBS bench mount neck turn tool with an RCBS concentricety gage.
.270 brass generally runs about .013 neck wall thickness. Will take it as low as .0125 to "get it round". Necks generally seem to vary .013 - .015, in which case I turn them down to .013 to get rid of the high spots. Not really critical in a hunting rifle, makes more difference in long range cartridges.
Maybe not really necessary but it is fun.
firearmsunlimited
Member
Unless you have an tight neck chamber turning necks is a waist of time. Any improvement of 1 to 3 thousands will not effect accuracy in a standard SAAMI spec chamber. The only time it could be advantageous with a standard chamber is if the concentricity measurement or neck thickness is 5 thousands per side out. You need a neck concentricity gauge to measure that. Relative to a previous post, benchrest shooters turn necks because their chamber are tight neck reamed. Turning the necks with a 2 thousands per side clearance allows them the best alignment possible.
Ray1970
Member
I only ever had to turn my necks for one rifle. Had a local guy that built custom bench rest rifles rebarrel one of my rifles. My rifle wasn't a bench rest rifle but apparently got the bench rest treatment when he chambered it. At least he told me when I picked it up that it had a tight neck and I would likely have to turn the necks. He even engraved the barrel with the dimensions. I couldn't chamber a round if I didn't turn the necks if I was using new brass.
Beyond that one particular instance I don't see any need to turn the necks on any cases. I've had other rifles that would repeatedly shoot sub .5 MOA groups or better and I didn't do anything extra special with that brass.
Beyond that one particular instance I don't see any need to turn the necks on any cases. I've had other rifles that would repeatedly shoot sub .5 MOA groups or better and I didn't do anything extra special with that brass.
I inside-neck turn my 40-XB-fired 6mm Rem cases with a Lee Target Loader.
I have an FN LAR (.308 Win) for which I reload, but of course I full length resize for that every time, and don't sweat case necks.
I have two 7mm pistols, a 7mm-08 H-S Precision and a 7mm BR XP-100, and load for both with Wilson dies. I'm not using up bullets very fast in either. I have plenty of cases for the 7mm-08, and a small stock of Hornady factory cartridges, which are just about as accurate as my my own. Obviously, my once-fired cases don't need turning, and even my older cases haven't needed any help yet.
I only have 100 BR cases, and I have reloaded 50 of them quite a few times. No issues yet. If I have to start neck turning, it will be probably be here, and then I'd be set for both pistols. At age 72, I'm not so sure that the problem will ever come up.
Further, deponent sayeth not.
I have an FN LAR (.308 Win) for which I reload, but of course I full length resize for that every time, and don't sweat case necks.
I have two 7mm pistols, a 7mm-08 H-S Precision and a 7mm BR XP-100, and load for both with Wilson dies. I'm not using up bullets very fast in either. I have plenty of cases for the 7mm-08, and a small stock of Hornady factory cartridges, which are just about as accurate as my my own. Obviously, my once-fired cases don't need turning, and even my older cases haven't needed any help yet.
I only have 100 BR cases, and I have reloaded 50 of them quite a few times. No issues yet. If I have to start neck turning, it will be probably be here, and then I'd be set for both pistols. At age 72, I'm not so sure that the problem will ever come up.
Further, deponent sayeth not.
Ivan the Butcher
Member
I have a 22BR custom rifle, with a tight chamber. Forming brass is as simple as neck sizing, BUT the Lapua brass is actually 6BR Norma and the chamber is 22BR Remington. The real difference is the case wall thickness. Norma uses "No Turn" necks of .015 thickness, and Remington chambers use "Turn" necks of .010 thickness. So when I acquired the rifle I made up 200 brass and I've been doing fine for 12 years.
If using the 6BR Norma brass to make 7BR Remington cases, you MAY not need to turn them, How worn was the ream when they chambered your XP?
I have looked at my 6PPC (Sako Varminter) and I have 1.75ish/1000" clearance on each side, it is a little tight but I don't Red Line my Varmint loads. I really don't know how accurate this rifle is, at 200 yards everything is still way smaller than a dime!
My other "wildcat" is a 6x284. Norma 6.5x284 brass works great with only neck sizing and trim to length. It has won matches out past 500 yards, If it works - don't fix it!
Ivan
If using the 6BR Norma brass to make 7BR Remington cases, you MAY not need to turn them, How worn was the ream when they chambered your XP?
I have looked at my 6PPC (Sako Varminter) and I have 1.75ish/1000" clearance on each side, it is a little tight but I don't Red Line my Varmint loads. I really don't know how accurate this rifle is, at 200 yards everything is still way smaller than a dime!
My other "wildcat" is a 6x284. Norma 6.5x284 brass works great with only neck sizing and trim to length. It has won matches out past 500 yards, If it works - don't fix it!
Ivan
firearmsunlimited
Member
firearmsunlimited
Member
Wow, I'm not quite sure where some of your hypotheses came from but ... First, a "minimum" chamber neck refers to the minimum dimension as listed by SAAMI. SAAMI minimum reamed necks do not required brass neck turning in order to chamber. Second, neck turning has nothing to do with safety. Chamber pressures are not effected by the case neck to chamber neck dimension. In a tight neck chamber (one reamed tighter than SAAMI minimum spec) if sufficient clearance is not allowed extraction of the fired case will be the resulting problem. Third, turning a case neck 2/3 is the invitation for the dreaded inside neck donut to happen. As the brass flows it will stop where the neck turning stopped and migrate to the inside of the neck. This severely impacts accuracy. To turn necks correctly the neck is turned to the neck shoulder junction and just kisses the shoulder without cutting into it. Fourth, case necks do not thicken due to brass flow from firings. Fifth, even if a chamber cast is done what would the alternative be? I've never seen brass for sale that advertise thick neck walls. All factory gun chambers are reamed to SAAMI maximum dimensions and it is not possible to experience a tight neck issue.
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firearms-
Neck turning can mitigate a potentially dangerous high pressure situation should there be inadequate neck clearance.
Regarding the 'donut"... my explanation was poor. By turning 2/3rds, I was referring not to case neck length, but to circumference. Rather than turn the entire neck down to clean metal, I set the cutter to cut about 2/3, a very light cut. A heavier cut could be required, but this amount often works well. Yes, turning 2/3 of the case neck length will guarantee a donut.
Case necks thicken from brass flow.
Chamber cast could be used to provide dimensions if needed with a problem chamber. I have never run into this.
With the first firing of any brass, it is probably unlikely that a tight neck problem would exist. Possible with subsequent firings.
I stand by my original comments, all of which have a good basis. I respect your right to express your opinions, even if I may not agree. I will assume you have much experience, probably far greater than mine regarding neck turning and your statements are based on this experience.
Neck turning can mitigate a potentially dangerous high pressure situation should there be inadequate neck clearance.
Regarding the 'donut"... my explanation was poor. By turning 2/3rds, I was referring not to case neck length, but to circumference. Rather than turn the entire neck down to clean metal, I set the cutter to cut about 2/3, a very light cut. A heavier cut could be required, but this amount often works well. Yes, turning 2/3 of the case neck length will guarantee a donut.
Case necks thicken from brass flow.
Chamber cast could be used to provide dimensions if needed with a problem chamber. I have never run into this.
With the first firing of any brass, it is probably unlikely that a tight neck problem would exist. Possible with subsequent firings.
I stand by my original comments, all of which have a good basis. I respect your right to express your opinions, even if I may not agree. I will assume you have much experience, probably far greater than mine regarding neck turning and your statements are based on this experience.
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firearms-
Neck turning can mitigate a potentially dangerous high pressure situation should there be inadequate neck clearance.
Regarding the 'donut"... my explanation was poor. By turning 2/3rds, I was referring not to case neck length, but to circumference. Rather than turn the entire neck down to clean metal, I set the cutter to cut about 2/3, a very light cut. A heavier cut could be required, but this amount often works well.
Case necks thicken from brass flow.
Chamber cast could be used to provide dimensions if needed with a problem chamber. I have never run into this.
With the first firing of any brass, it is probably unlikely that a tight neck problem would exist. Possible with subsequent firings.
I stand by my original comments, all of which have a good basis. I respect your right to express your opinions, even if I may not agree. I will assume you have much experience, probably far greater than mine regarding neck turning and your statements are based on such.
Neck turning can mitigate a potentially dangerous high pressure situation should there be inadequate neck clearance.
Regarding the 'donut"... my explanation was poor. By turning 2/3rds, I was referring not to case neck length, but to circumference. Rather than turn the entire neck down to clean metal, I set the cutter to cut about 2/3, a very light cut. A heavier cut could be required, but this amount often works well.
Case necks thicken from brass flow.
Chamber cast could be used to provide dimensions if needed with a problem chamber. I have never run into this.
With the first firing of any brass, it is probably unlikely that a tight neck problem would exist. Possible with subsequent firings.
I stand by my original comments, all of which have a good basis. I respect your right to express your opinions, even if I may not agree. I will assume you have much experience, probably far greater than mine regarding neck turning and your statements are based on such.
I've never felt the need. Maybe I haven't taken my shooting seriously enough over the last 55 yrs. My Springfields, most Mausers and commercial rifles have generally performed enough over minimum requirements for their ultimate applications (hunting, range practice and just fun shooting). The varying results I've had from fiddling w/different loads have been satisfying enough that I've not been impelled to squeeze every last 1/4 minute of group size out of 'em. Sometimes I trim to length or swage primer crimps, especially when reforming, but turning ? nah.
Larry
Larry
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DWalt
Member
"I've turned case necks for a long time using a Forster tool. I've never inside reamed a neck and don't see a reason to ever do so, but there are exceptions to everything.
External neck turning results in a much more uniform wall thickness than neck reaming. Not sure why anyone would want/need to do inside reaming. I have never known of anyone who did it that way.
In the world of bench rest shooting, absolute uniformity in all things is very important, but some factors are more significant than others. At the top are two - determining precisely what the optimum cartridge OAL is for a specific bullet and load, and having uniform case lengths. There are many others of decreasing importance, including flash hole, neck wall thickness, and case weight uniformity. Books have been written about all this stuff for those who are so inclined. But all those BR guys want one hole groups at 100 and 200 yards. Most of us don't need anywhere near that degree of precision.
External neck turning results in a much more uniform wall thickness than neck reaming. Not sure why anyone would want/need to do inside reaming. I have never known of anyone who did it that way.
In the world of bench rest shooting, absolute uniformity in all things is very important, but some factors are more significant than others. At the top are two - determining precisely what the optimum cartridge OAL is for a specific bullet and load, and having uniform case lengths. There are many others of decreasing importance, including flash hole, neck wall thickness, and case weight uniformity. Books have been written about all this stuff for those who are so inclined. But all those BR guys want one hole groups at 100 and 200 yards. Most of us don't need anywhere near that degree of precision.
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Ivan the Butcher
Member
Neck Reaming: I have 1960 era RCBS cartridge forming die sets, that the neck wall thickness was done from the inside with a reaming die and hand crank ream. It was more precise than anything available back then.
I once converted about 250 223 cases into 200 30 Mauser cases in about 60 or 70 minutes. First band saw the 223 neck and shoulder off and FL sizing in a 30 Mauser die. The neck was about 3 times too thick and the case mouth jagged, plus way too long. With a Forrester case Trimmer and using a .307/.308 ream as a pilot, Trim to length. I ruined several cases due to haste, but like I said I was done in like 20 seconds a case.
Good neck turning, takes about a minute to remove .005 or so neck wall thickness with a power attachment on the Forrester system. In Cartridge conversions you often have .015 to .025 to remove. That would take a very long time per case. Most military weapons don't need that kind of precision, but if you did, you could ream it thick, and then turn the outside. The hand neck turning tools take much longer!
A what most people don't know, is that the cutter rides up and down the neck several times. (2 to 8 passes, depending) You do it until nothing comes off. Reaming, especially power reaming is a one pass operation. It boils down to, "How much precision do you really need?"
Ivan
I once converted about 250 223 cases into 200 30 Mauser cases in about 60 or 70 minutes. First band saw the 223 neck and shoulder off and FL sizing in a 30 Mauser die. The neck was about 3 times too thick and the case mouth jagged, plus way too long. With a Forrester case Trimmer and using a .307/.308 ream as a pilot, Trim to length. I ruined several cases due to haste, but like I said I was done in like 20 seconds a case.
Good neck turning, takes about a minute to remove .005 or so neck wall thickness with a power attachment on the Forrester system. In Cartridge conversions you often have .015 to .025 to remove. That would take a very long time per case. Most military weapons don't need that kind of precision, but if you did, you could ream it thick, and then turn the outside. The hand neck turning tools take much longer!
A what most people don't know, is that the cutter rides up and down the neck several times. (2 to 8 passes, depending) You do it until nothing comes off. Reaming, especially power reaming is a one pass operation. It boils down to, "How much precision do you really need?"
Ivan
