Need a sibling to my 1928 Remington Model 14 pump

[petemacmahon]

I just picked up a 1928 or 1929 (still need to ascertain which is the year stamp on the base of the barrel) Remington model 14 pump action rifle in 35 Remington. I am not a collector of safe queens and so this will be out hunting this coming deer season if it works ok (I have yet to get it to the range).

Coincidentally, I am just now sorting through a couple bags of wheat pennies my Dad gave me like 30 years ago. I have already found a few 1928 & 1929 pennies to put in my pocket.

So, next up, since I don't yet own any pre-war Smith & Wesson revolvers, I'm thinking the time has come to get a shooter grade to round out my hunting outfit!!

Now, to me, this will probably mean a 44 hand ejector 3rd model. But posting here to elicit other opinions.

So, shoot - what would be the best revolver for my belt?? Remember, it must be capable of killing a white tail deer under perfect conditions ( I have already killed deer with my 696, so please don't waste any time trying to school me on the ballistics of the 44 special) and it must have been made around the same time as the rifle.

 

[Muley Gil]

You can't go wrong with a 3rd Model .44 Special. Your other period choices would be a Triple Lock, a 2nd Model .44, a .455 converted to .45 Colt or a 1917. The .38/44 Heavy Duty didn't appear until 1930, so that's out.

Skeeter Skelton wrote about a feller that left Texas after WW II and moved to Alaska. He took his only firearm, a Colt Police Positive Special in .32-20. Supposedly, the new sourdough killed an elk with it, but I think the old .32 WCF would be a bit light for a biggin' like that.

 

[Hondo44]

The 2nd and 3rd model 44s, or a 45 ACP 1917 Commercial model are the only options that could have been produced in the 1928-'29 period.

But they're all N frames and of course won't carry as nice as the L frame 696. The two 44 models can be found with 4" barrels, the 3rd model easiest, which would carry a bit easier.

 

[les.b]

I agree with the above posters regarding a suitable sidearm. But about the rifle...awhile back I aquired a Remington 141, the successor of the 14, and, being unfamiliar with the model, began to do some research. I ran a thread on it, and learned about the Forum for Remingtons, the "Remington Society". After visiting and posting there, I was fortunate enough to meet a gentleman who knows all about the 14s and 141s. His name is Jim Peterson, and he is a great guy. Has parts and a wealth of knowledge regarding these fine rifles. You might want to check him out.... Here's a link to my thread over on the Remington site:

Remington Model 141 .35 Rem Caliber - Remington Society

And here's a link to my thread here on the S&W forum:

Anybody have a Remington 141??.

Here's my 141...it came with the scope, I am either going to replace it with a small period scope, or return to open sights... One of the things that Jim recommends is to avoid the Hornady Ammo shown here. I am now using the Remington and Winchester brands with the 200 gr gullets. I also have the dies and components for reloading....

Best Regards, Les

 

[bmcgilvray]

Gotta be an N-Frame with a .44 or .45 bore. As an alternative, what about a wonderful ol' Colt New Service?


A Remington Model 14R carbine in .30 Remington lives here. I got it from the original owner who said he purchased it on a close-out sale from Leonard Bros. in Fort Worth, Texas in 1936. He said the sporting goods department in the basement had big drawers like bins with the Remington Model 14s, rifles and carbines in all the calibers, stored in them. The serial number, the Remington barrel date code ( Remington Barrel Date Codes = Date Of Manufacture | Gun Values Board ), and certain other features dates the rifle to 1921. Odd how it remained unsold for 15 years.



Its accuracy doesn't really "set the woods on fire" at 100 yards. Trigger could be a contributing factor. As my old friend who originally owned the rifle said: "The thing takes two men and a boy to pull its trigger!"


A compact and potent little deer rifle for modest ranges.


One deer has fallen to it since I've owned it, taken at about 50 yards.

 

[2152hq]

Love those early Remingtons..congrats on a fine rifle!

The Month/Yr bbl date code (if there are multiple date codes on the bbl) will be the one closest to the frame.
Second letter 'W' it's 1928
Second letter 'X',,it's 1929

The First letter is the Month of production, always taken in 1 thru 12 order from the moniker BLACKPOWDERX for the 12 months.
B=1 (January),,ect

If there are more than one bbl date codes, they are most likely 'Repair Dept' codes.
Same dating system, but followed by a '3' to indicate a repair of some sort,,,,could be anything from a major repair to a screw replaced.

Some guns have multiple 'repair codes' stamped on them. One in front of the other going to the left toward the muzzle as they were added each time the gun was returned for service.
Most recent is the one stamped farthest to the left on the bbl.

There are other date codes other than the '3' for the repair but they are not often seen.

A date code w/a '2' indicated a replacement bbl that was mail ordered and not fitted at the factory
'4' was returned to customer,,no work done. Could have been the gun was unsafe (usually the assumption when seen now), but it could have simply been that the work price quoted like a refinish was too expensive for the customers liking and the gun sent back 'with no work done'.

There's a 5 and 6 but I don't recall which is which. I think one is a sale to Canadian customer, the other is a sale to Remington employee.

When checking the Remington datecode listings on the net, I usually double check by using two different sites.
A couple of the common posted sites have typos in the listings,,or at least used to have them.

For a handgun and a pre-war first purchase,,I'd simply find a nice smooth M&P 38sp in the bbl length of my liking.
Not the usual thought of deer getter type revolver, but I'm sure it's done that before plenty of times under those perfect conditions mentioned.
One would make an excellent companion carry piece in the white-tail woods.
Let the rifle do it's work.

 

[petemacmahon]

Thanks guys for all that extra info. After reading 2152hq's info and cross checking:

Serials Model 14 – Remington Society of America

I did not know that there might be a month AND year code. Also checking the other link shared in the previous post told me that the date code will not be stamped with the proof mark so now I know where to look.

Since it stands to reason that the barrel & the Serial numbered receiver might have been made at different times, that would account for the serial# ranges not matching exactly with the barrel codes. Taking all this into account, the most recent of the two would be the better indicator of a shipping time frame.

I will re-read the stampings and try to hit the range on Sunday (with Remington factory 200 grain round nose cor-lokt ammo) and report my findings and results.

 

[les.b]

This was the barrel code on my 141, and it puts the date of manufacture at October 1940, IIRC.

Since I first posted the above threads a year ago, I have obtained a fair supply of the rounds you mention, the Remington 200 gr corelocked, and they are great.

Best Regards, Les

 

[bigolddave]

If you really want to go whole hog, get a Remington 14 1/2 in 44/40 or 38/40, they will be a little hard to find. Then look for an N frame to go with it. At least the 44/40 is possible, and maybe the 38/40. This will be a task that may take the rest of your life, and all of your money.

 

[petemacmahon]

If you really want to go whole hog, get a Remington 14 1/2 in 44/40 or 38/40, they will be a little hard to find. Then look for an N frame to go with it. At least the 44/40 is possible, and maybe the 38/40. This will be a task that may take the rest of your life, and all of your money.

I think that would make me officially some kind of loony... but I like where you're going with this. How does that saying go: If the shoe fits?

 

[model17]

My model 14 is from '29 and left to me by my grand parents. .35 Rem likes 150 gr. Corelokt ammo. Within range one shot is all it ever took on deer.

 

[bigolddave]

About forty years ago, I bought a 14 1/2 in .44 from an older gentleman, who probably was not near as old as I am now. I paid all of $75 for it, and got a Winchester 42 for $135 and a Winchester 61 for $65. Probably had to float a loan with the credit union to cover it. After discovering that the Remington would not feed reloads, I sold it to a local dealer, who was also a gunsmith. He thought it would be a great rifle for hogs. He discovered that the bore was so oversize that a bullet big enough to fit the bore could not be loaded and chambered. He loved the rifle, and just stashed it in his closet.

 

[DWalt]

"This was the barrel code on my 141, and it puts the date of manufacture at October 1040, IIRC."

Was it formerly owned by William the Conquerer?

Back in my youth, the Remington 14s and 141s were as common as dirt, not so today. Those in the .35 Rem caliber are the only ones having readily available ammo. I'd like to find one chambered in .30 Rem.

 

[les.b]

Nice catch!! I was trying to type 1940, but my fumble fingers screwed up.

Best Regards, Les

 

[bigolddave]

DWalt, keep me in mind if you find one in .30 Remington. I picked up four boxes at a gun show a year ago, for my Stevens 425 in 30/30 Remington. I doubt if I will shoot it much, if at all, and could probably spare you a box or two.

 

[DWalt]

I have a supply (over 200 rounds) of .30 Rem ammo already. In fact I even made up some .30 Rem cases from .30-30 brass. But thanks for the offer. I have a Rem Model 8 and a Rem Model 81 in .30 Rem.

 

[petemacmahon]

shoots ok!

So the date code on the barrel appears to date the barrel to Jan.1928 - but the serial # fits into the range that is reported for 1929 - go figure.

Most importantly, however, she shoots just fine. If I were real picky, I would adjust the windage a bit. That was 75 yards from the bench, open sights, with Remington factory 200 grain round nose. That's a called flyer, ie. my fault. That's about all the range I need from any of my tree stands. I can shoot my peep sighted guns better, but I'm not about to fork out upwards of $250 for a Lyman R14, seeing as I now have to search for a 44 hand ejector!!!

I love the machining on this thing! It appears the to drift the front sight, there's a little bolt to loosen so you can move it. And there's also a tiny bolt holding in what appears to be the center insert on the rear sight blade. I wonder if there were different rear sight blades as options?

 

[les.b]

Pete....

As I mentioned in post 4 above, I would get in touch with Jim Peterson over at the Remington Society forum. He is the guru of the 14s and 141s. In addition to the sort of expertise that we find here on the S&W forum in regard to Smiths.... He also stocks parts to help keep these old beauties running.

That looks like some excellent shooting!! Certainly good enough accuracy for deer in the kind of brushy country that we find here in WV, and probably up in your neck of the woods as well!!

Best Regards, Les

 

[Texas Star]

Pete-

Please describe the .44 Special ammo that you used in the M-696 to kill that deer. I know that Buffalo Bore makes quite effective .44 ammo now, and would probably use that, but in a larger gun. If I bought a .44 Special, it'd probably be a M-624, but I grasp your nostalgic view of the old guns.

Was Elmer Keith already describing his handloads in 1929? He wrote about them in, American Rifleman quite early. Lyman and other manuals might have given data for loads pushing the 250 grain Keith bullet to 1,000 FPS. He loaded to 1,200 FPS, but I'd spare an old gun that today.

Frankly, I've never understood the appeal of slide action rifles. I always wrote them off as something that inexperienced shooters bought because they worked like their pump shotguns. The fact that I can operate a bolt action rifle much faster than most men has limited my need for a pump or lever action. And the better cartridges are available mainly in bolt actions. Yes, I know about that guy named (Glenn?) Cotter from OK, who used a M-94 in .32 Special in Africa. Still, if this M-141 stirs your blood, have at it.

I'd probably have a Winchester M-54 or a Springfield sporter then. Or , a Mannlicher-Schoenauer .30-06 or a Rigby .275, if well heeled. I've actually owned a Mannlicher carbine in 8X56mm, and it'd kill anything a .35 Remington would. Recoil with the steel butplate was less than I'd feared. The gun shot pretty well with DWM factory ammo and open sights. I think bullet weight was about 200 grains, maybe 196 grains?

As a sidearm on a deer hunt in the USA, I'd prefer a Colt New Service .45 Colt, a Colt .45 Auto, or a M-1917 S&W .45 or a handloaded Second or Third Model S&W .44. If I bought it as a general, all-round sidearm, the S&W would have a 5 inch barrel. If as primarily a hunting gun where I might also encounter a bear, I'd have a 6.5 inch barrel. If not a handloader, I might consider a .44-40. I'd actually want to own all of these guns.

Good luck with your project. And I hope you find a .44 in better than "shooter grade." I'd rather have a really well reblued gun than a worn finish. I think you might advance your hunting fantasy by deciding that you'd owned that .35 a few years, it was the 1930's, and you could use Magna grips. Otherwise, recoil in a warm .44 load is going to gouge the web of your hand a bit. Colt's New Service and SAA handled recoil better than S&W's basic old "service" grips. Maybe you could just see the problem and have custom grips made before S&W marketed Magnas? There's no extra charge for that in a fantasy!

And if you bump that fantasy forward a few years, you could wear a .38-44 S&W. Load it with Keith's lead HP at about 1150 FPS and you have a gun that'd kill a white - tailed deer at close range.

 

[Hondo44]

So the date code on the barrel appears to date the barrel to Jan.1928 - but the serial # fits into the range that is reported for 1929 - go figure.

It would be a a real puzzle if the dates were reversed!

The barrels are made in batches. So one from a Jan 28 batch sat in inventory until assembled to an action and eventually serial numbered and shipped out in 1929.