Need help w/686 decision.

Skeeziks

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Hi.... I'm considering buying a 686.
Went into the gun shop today and he had two...a 4" and 6". I've had my mind set on the 4" because it feels better in my hand but the 6" seems to be the way most of the comp. shooters go (for the longer sighting plane.)
The 4" is a 686-4 and the 6" is a 686-2. Can somebody explain the significance of the "dash numbers" to me?
As I said, I'm looking at the 4" and he's got $600. on the tag and I'm thinking of offering him $500. BTW...the gun is as clean as they come. The previous owner either never shot it, or he was meticulous about keeping it clean.
What would be a fair price?
Any input would be greatly appreciated...thanks.
 
Welcome to the Forum.

The 686-2 changed the hammer nose and firing pin bushing which had been subject to a recall on earlier models.

The 686-4 underwent several changes during it's 4 years in production. If the gun you're looking at has a square-butt grip frame and the thumb-piece is like the one on the 686-2, then it is one of the early -4s (1993-1996). The main differences were the change to Hogue rubber grips (rather than wood), and the top-strap was drilled and tapped for optical sight mounting. The rear sight leaf and extractor were also changed. 1996 was the change to a round-butt grip frame, plastic shipping case, and a redesigned thumb-piece.

As to which one to get - it's a matter of taste. I have a 6" 686 and a 4" 586 (blue version of the 686) and accuracy is about the same. I like the "feel" of my 4" gun - the 6" seems a little muzzle heavy to me.
$600 seems like an OK price depending on where you live. $500 would be a good price for a gun in the condition you describe.

Be sure and post a pic of whichever one you get.

BTW, that's a cool screen name. :cool:
 
I would vote for the 4 inch version. While you do lose on the sight radius that can be easily addressed by adding a reflex sight such as the J Point to the gun. BTW, most long distance handgunners have now gone to using Optics, because they provide such a big improvement for sighting at long ranges. Sight radius for a reflex sight at 50 yards is 50 yards, so it's difficult to match that by shooting with irons.

The downside of the longer barrel is that they are heavy, expecially the fully lugged barrel on the 686. I have a 6 1/2 inch 610 and a 6 inch fully lugged 617 and am quite familiar with the effect of that muzzle mass, it gets tiring to hold after a while and when fatique sets in, accuracy goes out the window due to shake. In addition, during rapid fire drills, the longer barrels have a strongly negative effect on group size. The problem is that during rapid fire that extra mass in the barrel makes it much more difficult to return to the target quickly because of all that inertia. You either swing past the target and have to come back to Point of Aim, shoot with the gun moving, or slow down your firing rate. The best grouping that I can manage with my 610 at 30 feet at a 1/2 second split is a pretty poor 7 inches. Compare that to the 3 inch group I can shoot with my 4 inch tapered barrel 67 at the same distance and split time and you can easily see the effect of trying to move all that mass quickly.

IMO, the only advantage for the longer barrels is if you intend to use the gun for Hunting. That extra 2 inches in the barrel will provide a bit more velocity and will extend the effective range somewhat. How much, I really can't say, I limit my hunting range to my group size relative to what I am hunting. Quite simply, I won't take a shot at a distance where I know I can't shoot well enough to insure a clean kill, which for me isn't long enough that velocity concerns are that important.

Bottomline, the shorter barrel is a much better choice for Defense or Gaming. In addition, it's a lot easier to carry a revolver with a shorter barrel. BTW, even with the 4 inch barrel the 686 is a touch muzzle heavy, enough that it will have some effect in rapid fire. Good news is that it won't matter from a Defensive standpoint, I can still shoot by 620 into 4 inches at 30 feet and the 620 is very nearly as muzzle heavy as the 686. However it noticeably less nimble in the hand as my older tapered barrel 67 which has the sweetest balance of any revolver I own. If you want a revolver for Bowling Pin matches, IMO the best choice you can make today is a 3 inch 686 or 610 and equip it with a J Point Reflex. I can't afford one at this point, but someday I'll have the funds for one. Hopefully, I'll get lucky and find a 3 inch 610, which is a personal grail gun for me.
 
IMO the 4" 686 is the best all around revolver made. Durable enough to handle full power .357 loads all day with the option of .38 target loads, compact enough to carry if necessary, and easy to maintain.

The $600 sounds a little steep, I see 4" versions that appear to be in pretty good condition go for quite a bit less on the auction sites fairly often. Having said that, it is always worth a few more $$ to me to be able to handle the gun and check everything out for myself as opposed to banking on a seller's description sight unseen. So, IMO if it is in excellent condition with original grips maybe $525 OTD, stretch it as far as $550 with the original box and papers.
 
Hi,

I agree with others that the 4 inch is the way to go. The price that you indicated is a little high. For a shooters grade 686 pre-lock I would not pay over $500. I sold a very good shooters grade with original grips on gun broker for $475. I had too many and could afford letting one go. If I were you, I would be patient. You can get a good 686 for $450 to $475. A lot of gun shops are taking advantage of the public right now. They are jacking prices up. I saw a model 19 no dash 4 inch that did not have the original grips at a gun shop. The gun shop wanted $650. This was a shooters grade revolver only. So my advice is shop around.

Good luck,
roaddog28
 
The shorter barrels are bringing more money right now. $600 for a clean -4 in 4" would be sold if I found it.
 
A big thanks to all of you for your input & advice.
I went down today to make the offer of $500. but the owner wasn't there! But the guy that was behind the counter "pulled" the gun from the case to hold for me until the owner gets back on Tues. when I'll show up to make the offer.
It seems that some of you think his asking price of $600. is at least $125. too high...and some of you think it's about fair. I live in FL and I've never seen a 686 with a tag on it for as low as $450 - $475.
My plan was to offer the $500 and hope to settle on $550. But like I said, this gun is as clean as they come (looks virtually un-fired) and I'm pretty sure the tag said "W/Box."
I will always pay a little more to get a gun that is in better cond. It doesn't make sense to save $75. and end up with one that is in less cond. and I'm not going to happy with. My problem is I have no income right now and I'm having trouble getting up the funds. The only good news is he just aquired this gun and I have some time.
I originally figured I'd get the best deal by offering him CASH in full but I wonder if I'd do better by offering a trade as part of the payment?
Well, I'll see what happens on Tues. Thanks again, guys.
 
I would go with a 3" 686 for about $700
SMITH AND WESSON MODEL 686 PLUS 3" DELUXE 357MAG STAINLESS
or
a 686 ssr. the satin finish & the square flat barrel is real nice.
the trigger job is also not too bad.
 
I originally figured I'd get the best deal by offering him CASH in full but I wonder if I'd do better by offering a trade as part of the payment?

There are 2 things to keep in mind if you decide to trade something in:

1) A dealer will almost always be offering you less for a trade-in than what you would be able to sell it for in a private sale.

2) You should not have to pay tax on the value of your trade-in. In other words, if he offers you $300 for your trade-in, it's equal to a $324 offer (@ 8% tax rate) off of your purchase...$550 for this 686 - $300 for theoretical trade-in = $250 + tax ($20 @ 8%) = $270, versus a cash only price of $550 + tax ($44 @ 8%) = $594.

I just agreed to buy a 6" 686-4 on my local forum for $425. It's described as nearly perfect, no box. I know most prefer the 4" barrel, but I actually prefer a 6" (I actually prefer a 5"...but they're so hard to find!)

Good luck!
Tim
 
the S&W model 686-4 is a great revolver, but @ a price of $600, i would not fall in love too quickly. there will always be a better deal down the line.
 
If the gun is to be a shooter then I also think $600 is to high and $500 is closer to the current market. The 686 is a great revolver and you should get the barrel length you like the best.

Everyone has their own preferences when it comes to barrel length and on the 686 I like the 6 inch barrel but that's probably because a 686 no dash with 6 inch barrel was my first revolver. Mine is a range gun and I like the longer sight radius but either barrel length will be accurate.
 
Thanks guys,

I'm definitely going with a 4", so I must ask...do the 4-inchers command a higher price than the 6-inchers?
If this gun is in "Like New" condition W/Box, would $550. be a fair price?
Last week I was browsing in a different gunshop when I saw a 4" 686-Plus that had a real nice trigger but was filthy and showed just how poorly the previous owner took care of it. Oh...btw, the shop wanted $669. for it and was sure to let me know how great of a bargain that was because a new one (if I could even get one) would cost over $900.

I don't know...I must have a sign on my forehead that says "Hello! I just love to pay sticker price!"
 
Here is a thought. The current cheapest version of the 4" 686+ you can buy is actually the 620! It has a partially lugged barrel - but the frame, 7-shot cylinder, grips, etc, are the same as the 4" 686+. You could buy the revolver new at Bass Pro, for example, on a new credit card from them - that would get you 5% or 10% off right there. You could sell what you wanted to for more than a trade-in value - and pay off most of that card the first month or so - all of it, very soon.

At least go to the S&W site and check out the 620 vs 686+. Just a thought!

Stainz

PS I have only one 686 - a 'plus' with a 5" partially lugged barrel, a 'Stocking Dealer Exclusive'. I am not such a fan of the full lug - if there is a choice. YMMV.
 
I have only one 686 - a 'plus' with a 5" partially lugged barrel, a 'Stocking Dealer Exclusive'. I am not such a fan of the full lug - if there is a choice. YMMV.

Thanks for the advice. But the 620 is $893. and the 686 (6-shot) is $932. So for $39 more I could get the gun I really want.
But it's all moot anyway because I've been out of work for quite a while and I'm gonna have a tuff time getting up the $550 if he accepts the offer.

May I ask what it is exactly about the full-lug barrel that you don't like? The reason I ask is because I see that there is a good number of people who also don't like it and I'm just curious.
 
I'm sure there are many on the forum who are more familiar with 686 prices than I am, but I have been doing quite a bit of shopping on GB lately, and have recently purchased both a 686-3 4", and 686+ 3". The shorter barrel lengths did seem to be pricier than 6" models, and as noted above, prices seem to be in the $500-600++, depending on condition.

I don't think $600 for a 4" model in the condition described is out of line. Sure, it might be a really good deal at $500, and a pretty good deal at $550, but I wouldn't lose any sleep over an extra $50 for a gun that's in great shape that you might want to keep for a very long time. I doubt it will lose its value.

If it's the one you want, I wouldn't let $50 or $100 deter you, just skip eating out for a week or two.
 
I wouldn't let $50 or $100 deter you, just skip eating out for a week or two.

Believe me...being out of work for as long as I have, I haven't been doing very much eating out.:(

Thanks alot for your input.
 
I've had the 2.5", 4" and 6" L frames, so I've had the opportunity to experience the difference.

IMO, the 4" is the best. Ballance is fantastic. The 6" is muzzle heavy.

I shoot N frames as well including a 29 Classic, so I can appreciate a muzzle heavy revolver, but the L frame is not a hunting revolver per se, so that extra mass is misspent for the purpose of the .357.

Try to test fire both lengths and see what floats your boat.
 
Oh, I've already made up mind on the 4".

But here's something that's weighing on my mind: I've been searching thru the threads here on the recalls for the early Dash #'s. I know there were no recalls on the 686-4 I'm looking to buy but if I see an "M" stamped on the frame should I run out of the shop and get as far away from the gun as possible?
What I mean is...since there were no recalls on the Dash 4, wouldn't an "M" indicate this one had to be sent back to S&W for some kind of repair work?
Any thoughts?
 
Skeeziks,

Sorry about your job predicament. I really like the traditional look of a partially-lugged barrel, like my 4" 625MG. I tolerate that full lug on my 625JM, 617, and 696 - because they are fun. I guess I got spoiled shooting a friend's 4" 19 - it really is like an extension of your hand. Sadly, I let the last batch of 4" 66's my pusher had - at $449 - go without buying one ('05). They really 'pointed' well. The 4" 620 is very close. My 5" h-l 686+, $489 new 12/04, pointed better to me than a 4" 686+ in the adjacent display - which was $10 more, too! I noticed the last 4" 627 Pro my local pusher had was $800+ - wow - that's nearly $100 more than 5/08. Prices are still going up...

I am not in the best situation, financially speaking, as my teacher's retirement income keeps going down due to rising medical premiums. I may go ahead and get my SSI this summer. Planning that, I recently 'bit the bullet', so to speak, and bought my long awaited 'Blood Work' revolver - the new PC Shop 2 5/8" UDR PC627 - just broke a kilobuck with s/t. Put on my home equity line, I've already paid off half of it - and the other half should be paid off by next month. It's amazing how creative one can get when you have to... and, suddenly, I had to. Still, I am blessed to be where I am - and I know it.

Gosh, before I spent those list prices for a 620/686+, I'd find someone with a deal on a regular 4" 627 - or the feature-laden 627 Pro - they won't be that much more - and you'll get a x8 N-frame. There isn't that much of a price spread from a 620-686-627 Pro. Of course, you know what you want. Good luck.

Stainz
 
Believe me...being out of work for as long as I have, I haven't been doing very much eating out.:(

Thanks alot for your input.

Skeeziks, sorry about the employment situation, and I certainly did not mean to make light of it, I know when money is tight $100 can seem like quite a bit of money.

If things are really tight, I'm afraid a new shooting iron might have to fall down the priority list, but even if that is necessary, there will always be another opportunity to "scratch the itch", so don't let it get you down.

Good luck on the job front, it's bound to turn around, and I'm pretty confident there will always be an opportunity in the future to "fill out the collection".
 
Skeeziks, sorry about the employment situation, and I certainly did not mean to make light of it,

Hey, no offense was taken. Don't worry about it...I never felt U were making light of it.

Well...I went today to make the offer and check the gun out thoroughly. He rejected my offer of $550 Out the Door and so we agreed on $600 OTD; which works out to about $558 before tax & call-in.
I spent another 20-mins. checking it out just to be sure.... The timing is right on; it locks up perfect on every cyl.
The bore looks to be excellent! It appears to have been very well taken care of. My dealer obtained it from a guy he knows that treats his guns well.
When I have the balance of payment (hopefully next week) I'll be bringing it home. Thanks so much to all for all of your help & input.
 
Thanks guys,

I'm definitely going with a 4", so I must ask...do the 4-inchers command a higher price than the 6-inchers?
If this gun is in "Like New" condition W/Box, would $550. be a fair price?
Last week I was browsing in a different gunshop when I saw a 4" 686-Plus that had a real nice trigger but was filthy and showed just how poorly the previous owner took care of it. Oh...btw, the shop wanted $669. for it and was sure to let me know how great of a bargain that was because a new one (if I could even get one) would cost over $900.

I don't know...I must have a sign on my forehead that says "Hello! I just love to pay sticker price!"

Just a couple of tips on purchasing a gun.

One, small dealers have to pay a transaction fee for every single credit card purchase and it's not insignificant. Depending on the card and the terms, it can exceed 15% for a small shop. So, if it's a smaller dealer, he may give you a much better price if you pay cash.

Second, every dealer put a good deal of wiggle room in their listed price. So, do your best to hammer him down. Odds are that he only payed about 350 for that gun. However, a 4 inch 686 is a quick selling revolver and he may not come down a lot because he knows that he can sell it for X within a month or two. Ideally, your first offer is below his "floor" and with a bit of back and forth you can arrive at that floor, which is the lowest price he'll sell it for. If he accepts your first offer, that means that your offer was above his "floor", so it won't be the best bargain possible. I would suggest making 450 as your first offer, it's a bit below market for a 686 in like new condition but a reasonable starting offer.

BTW, the new gun prices you quoted are well above the prices in my area. About 6 months ago, here in the Detroit area a 620 listed at about 725 and a 686 plus for about 775. By offering cash I was able to get my 620 for 655.00 a bit more than a year ago when list was 693.00. Point is, 900 or more for a new 686 is way over market and I would shop around for a dealer with better prices or hammer him down to market.
 
I am in process of getting a 686 no dash 4" for $450 shipped, with transfer fees that will come close to $500 OTD.

bought it from another forum.

another seller backed out on a model 27-2 nickel for $625 shipped (plus holster) so I wound up with the 686. I just told him "that's ok, maybe next time" and let it at that.

can't wait for the 686 to arrive!

Ed
 
Glad to see you were able to swing the 686. I had my early 90's vintage 6" 686 out the other day for a good cleaning. I have not shot this particular gun since the early 90's, with less than 30 rounds through it. Needless to say it's in showroom condition. The lockup is as tight as any revolver I own. The gun I usually use & have available is a 1970's 6" Security-Six.

Anyway, congrats on the fine, new gun.
 
It's Home...picked it up today.

I brought home my 686-4 today and I'm real pleased. I really think it is worth it to pay an extra $50 or $100 to get a superior conditioned firearm - and know first-hand before the deal is done.
This gun is in excellent cond. The owner never shot it much; it was more of a safe queen. I feel like I got a brand new gun that was only "road-tested" for a lot less than I would've paid for one right out of the factory.
Actually, I wouldn't buy a new S&W (they don't make 'em like they used ta'... and that awful IL.) ;)

Thank you all for your help thru all this...I'm happy.
 
I brought home my 686-4 today and I'm real pleased. I really think it is worth it to pay an extra $50 or $100 to get a superior conditioned firearm - and know first-hand before the deal is done.
This gun is in excellent cond. The owner never shot it much; it was more of a safe queen. I feel like I got a brand new gun that was only "road-tested" for a lot less than I would've paid for one right out of the factory.
Actually, I wouldn't buy a new S&W (they don't make 'em like they used ta'... and that awful IL.) ;)

Thank you all for your help thru all this...I'm happy.

I always look for superior condition (having the factory box is a big plus) & like you, don't mind paying extra when I find (& get) what I'm looking for.
To my way of thinking, it's like $ in the bank. (better actually)
Congrats on your 686 & enjoy. You found a nice one.
 

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