Need long range scope advice.

[Grayfox]

I've mentioned in another thread that I want to get certified for my clubs 200-600 yard range. I've never really done any long range shooting and want to give it a try. The rifle is a standard model Springfield M1A. I currently have a Leupold 4-12X scope on it. I wondering if this is enough to reach out to 600 yards? My eyes aren't what they once were. At 12X will the 600 yard target just be a tiny dot?
The catch is that until I get certified, I'm limited to the 100 yard range. So I can't really do any testing or comparisons.
I'm kinda thinking I should go up to a 24X scope. But cost will be a factor.
So I'm looking for advice as to what power I need and recommendations on a good quality scope that won't break the bank. Maybe in the $300-500 range?
Any and all advice will be welcome.

 

[JJEH]

We used to shoot out to 400m with iron sights, but it was pop-up targets we shot not scoring rings.

I think your scope should be enough for 600yd, depending on how large the target is. What reticle does it have?

 

[AJ]

In the Corps we shot out to 500 yards on a bullseye target with iron sights. The Scout Snipers use a 10X scope out to 1000 yards. I have used 24X and 36X scopes for small bore shooting. You can see your heart beat in you sight picture with those scopes. Stay with the lower power scopes. To find a real good scope in the higher powers, you will have to find a used one probably.

 

[LVSteve]

I'd stick with the 12x myself.

 

[Dennis]

The 4x12 Leupold is a great scope. Entirely sufficient for head shots at 600. If you are good enough.
I use a 10X for 1000yds.

 

[Old_Cop]

Your scope should do the job. I have not had success with mounting a scope on an M1A, used a SA mount, locked into the receiver and stripper holder. A newer version may work better.

 

[growr]

Your scope will do the job just fine.......I would suggest studying the trajectory tables for elevation needed on each distance and have it on the gun or in a data book to reference when needed. ie. 100-200-300-etc. to 600.....

On MY M1A Supermatch using irons, it was 5 clicks up from bottom for 200 yards, 8 clicks up from bottom for 300, and 19 clicks up from bottom for 600 using M852 or my reload equivalent.

Why up from bottom? We would always turn the rear sight to the bottom after each yardage change so as not to put it on twice.

If your Leupold has target turrets, then zero the turret to whatever range you prefer and base the other yardages accordingly and then write those settings down in your data book or tape it to the rifle so that they are easily referenced.

Also, make sure your Leupold has enough elevation travel to get out to 600 yards. Should be no problem, but I like to be sure.

Randy

PS.
Take the money you might have spent on a higher power scope and invest in more good quality match level ammo. Or get a high quality spotting scope to read the conditions and whatever changes might be taking place. 20x is a solid choice.

 

[Ματθιας]

How does your rifle shoot? Does it have acceptable accuracy @ 100 yards? If not, you're wasting your time.

Can you not take the rifle, or at least the just the scope out to the 600 yard range to see what the sight picture looks like?

You're biggest issue in scooping an M1A/M14 is the mount and quality rings. Mounts aren't cheap nor rings. A solid mount is key to tying everything together and getting repeatable results What kind of mount is on, now?

If you get super high magnification scopes or even binos, you'll notice a lot of movement maybe even enough to be distracting.

I have a Rem700 that I shoot @ 600 yards and I use a Super Sniper 10x42 fixed power scope. and @ $300 one of the best values for the $$$ IMO.

 

[jdlii]

Your current scope should be sufficient. I would not recommend a 24X for "sling" shooting. I use a fixed Leupold 12x on my M1A and find that it works very well.

My mid range rifle, a pre 64' competition action, with a Hart barrel in .308, in a McMillian Stock has a 4.5 x 14 x 50 Mark IV, 30mm, Leupold in a Bobro mount. It is more than enough scope at 600 yards and it is generally set on 12x for the entire match.

Go with what you know until you are justified in acquiring a scope with more magnification. Although I am a "Leupold guy" I have a Vortex 4 x 16x44 on a DPMS Oracle in .308 and it is a very fine scope with a side focus. Nikon makes a nice 4x16 with a side focus that is also a bargain. I have one on a Mod. 700 in .223 and it is a pleasure to use.

Have fun and keep'em in the middle!

 

[Peak53]

Question: What does it take to qualify you to shoot on the long range? I also believe your current scope should do the job if your rifle is up to it. Quality ammo may be the key.

 

[n c rod]

200-600 qualifying

I have had really good luck at 600 yds shooting Federal Gold Medal Match in 308 cal. If you reload you may tighten up groups 10-35%. If you search hard , you can find GMM about $1.00 per round. Ammo may be the biggest factor in the equation you are trying to solve. Good luck !!

 

[Grayfox]

Thanks for the advice. I hadn't even considered the shake factor with higher magnification. I guess I'll just stick to what I already have.
To answer the questions:
I've got a Sadlak Airborne mount and weaver rings. I might try some better rings and see if that makes a difference. The Weavers were just what I had on hand.
I'm just starting to work up a good load for this rifle. Gonna try to get the most accuracy I can out of it.
Qualification calls for three 5 shot groups:
200 yards - 6''
300 yards - 9"
600 yards - 18"
I believe that the rifle and I are up to that. Just trying to hedge my bets.

 

[M29since14]

Don’t forget that mirage gets to be significant with the higher power scopes. Where I shoot most folks tend to think 24x is about max, as a practical matter. They are looking for .22 caliber holes in targets in the varmint rifle match. On some days, if you have enough magnification to see the holes, you also have enough magnification to have trouble with mirage.

On your non-match tuned M1-A, I’d suggest you put your scope on 12x and leave it alone. It should be more than sufficient. You won’t be using that type of rifle in varmint rifle matches, and if you are shooting at normal high-power targets, 12x is plenty.

Magnification is a curious thing. In the past I have shot many tiny little groups with 4x scopes on high-powered rifles. Most of us have. Then along came better quality, high magnification variables that actually work well. And we got used to spending as much on a scope as we do for the rifle. Nowadays, most of my small caliber rifles have way more scope than they really need, and I notice I tend to rely on the magnification more than trigger control. Not the fault of the scope!

 

[growr]

You can pretty much replicate Federal Gold/ LC M-852 with 42 gr. IMR-4895, a Sierra 168 Match King, a Federal casing and primer and you are pretty much good to go. Make sure that the brass is sized and trimmed to spec.

Most will seat the bullet to magazine length...for single loading you can play with COL some if you want....

At 600 yards many will use a 175 A Max instead of the 168 SMK....depends on your rifle though.

Hope that helps ....

Randy

 

[Imissedagain]

As asked in post #2.... what type of reticle does it have?
A poorman’s F class... the Weaver T36 that was recommended to me had the fine crosshairs as did the 20x issued by the USAF on the 52D.

That way you can see the target and if you learn to read the mirage and get your pulse beat into the 40s you’ll have a better chance of hitting the target.... to be young again.

Who needs moving targets when my rifle is never still.

 

[H Richard]

I shot small bore competition for many years, using a 20X Unertle. You can see the torn edges of a shot ring at 100 yards, and the scope would move up and down with every heart beat. When I shot Prairie Dogs, I use a 6-18 Leupold or a 6.5-20 Nikon. What I usually find is I dial it down to about 12-14X for even shots in the 500+ yard range.

I think your 12 Leupold will work just fine. The quality of the glass shows up at those ranges, so don't try to skimp on cheap glass.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

If all you are shooting is Bullseyes in bright sunshine these scopes will do you just fine! But if your competition takes you into the realm of steel plate tactical shooting. you will need bigger/better glass! Black targets in the shade of trees on the side of a hill. Your qualifying groups are 3 MOA I have never seen a steel plate target that big beyond 500 yards. Most plates are One Foot square or round or smaller! Nothing like a 6" target at 1000 yards! (One foot is 1.2 MOA @1000Yds.)

Magnification isn't the answer. High quality glass without edge distortion and good size objective lenses (50 or 56mm) at 20 or so power will get you by (Depending on your eyesight) My smaller long range scope is 5.5-22power with 56mm objective and side focus. My larger is larger is 8-32 power with 56mm objective and adjustable objective (for parallax) This is way more than necessary! but it's what I had. The smaller of these two is more desirable. I have shot these courses with 6.5-20x40mm AO Leupold, that is not enough light gathering for shadowed targets at longer distances, but will be fine to exhalent for bright field like targets.

Ivan

 

[The Norseman]

Planes

Another thing to consider is Single Focal plane vs Double
focal plane.

Research it. Scope Focal Planes is an interesting read.

Good luck to you and your endeavors.

 

[BigBill]

im Thinking at 600yds it’s not a cheaply priced scope. I like my older bushnells I purchased new at the time. But ziess makes one of the best optics in the world.

My rear sight on my 1907 Swede carl gustaf m96 29” barreled 6.5 mm Mauser goes up to 2,000 meters with iron sights. Can it really shoot that far with no scope?

 

[chief38]

Leupolds have been my go-to for 10 years now.

 

[OLDSTER]

I have the Leica ER 5 2 to 10 X 50mm. Fantastic optics; not inexpensive ( $800 range), but for my serious varmint/prairie dog shooting with my Remington 722 in .222, it's worth every penny.