Hello all,
This is my first forum post, but I am not new to guns at all. Been at this game for a while with a lot of different guns. But at times we all need advice, and I am looking for some on a very specific question.
Part of my job these days is training bodyguards from foreign governments and N.G.O.'s who come here to the U.S. for training. There is a firearms component to the course, and none of them can usually bring their own weapons with them. So, I have to supply them. There's no telling exactly which guns they will be using in their home countries, and I might have a dozen different agents in the same class from a dozen different countries. Many of them are not allowed to even maintain control of their handguns at home while off-duty, so some do not have a lot of experience while others are quite good.
One of the most popular things we do is to provide a representative sample of handguns for them to try out and train with, all of which are in 9mm because that is what the world uses. In one of their exercises, while walking away from a target, they have to turn, draw and hit a 3x5 inch file card at unkown ranges of 10 to 15 meters after training, as part of their final exam. So, it would be unfair to hand them a pistol that will not do this with good ammunition. Currently, I have Berettas, Sigs, Glocks, and CZ's on hand, and they will all easily do this with a good shot behind them. For that matter, so will my personally owned Kahr P9 Covert that I've been packing since 2004.
This brings me to the M&P 9mm. I've been thinking of adding one or two of these to our training "library" of guns, and I am being offered brand new M&P Full Size or M&P Compacts in 9mm designed for law enforcement sales, with three magazines and tritium night sights at the same price for either. The pricing is quite attractive, about what one would pay for either gun in its cheapest form with standard sights and two magazines off the internet.
I've done a lot of reading so far and watched a lot of YouTube videos on both guns. Unfortunately, apparently nobody on YouTube wants to shoot at a paper target and show groups, and watching a guy stand at 7 yards and ring a big steel target tells me nothing. I can do that with a J-frame. When I read forum posts, comments such as "the gun is more accurate than I am" similarly miss the mark.
Finally, in looking at the posts related to M&P accuracy, I may be missing the right ones, but they all seem to be talking about older production guns with the original trigger, which I gather was horrid, and installing an Apex trigger, which I am told is great, would not serve our needs because the student would not be getting a representative sample of what the gun is like "off the rack" so to speak. I don't really want to buy an M&P just to find out that it won't hold the accuracy I need. But, I'm also told that S&W has re-worked the triggers on these guns and that they are much better now than they used to be.
So, can anyone here advise me on what I can expect accuracy wise, assuming a good, trained shooter with good ammo, from the M&P and the M&P Compact in 9mm as they are shipping now in 2015? Will either gun stay on a 3x5 file card, hung vertically, at 15 meters? Thanks in advance for any on-point replies.
This is my first forum post, but I am not new to guns at all. Been at this game for a while with a lot of different guns. But at times we all need advice, and I am looking for some on a very specific question.
Part of my job these days is training bodyguards from foreign governments and N.G.O.'s who come here to the U.S. for training. There is a firearms component to the course, and none of them can usually bring their own weapons with them. So, I have to supply them. There's no telling exactly which guns they will be using in their home countries, and I might have a dozen different agents in the same class from a dozen different countries. Many of them are not allowed to even maintain control of their handguns at home while off-duty, so some do not have a lot of experience while others are quite good.
One of the most popular things we do is to provide a representative sample of handguns for them to try out and train with, all of which are in 9mm because that is what the world uses. In one of their exercises, while walking away from a target, they have to turn, draw and hit a 3x5 inch file card at unkown ranges of 10 to 15 meters after training, as part of their final exam. So, it would be unfair to hand them a pistol that will not do this with good ammunition. Currently, I have Berettas, Sigs, Glocks, and CZ's on hand, and they will all easily do this with a good shot behind them. For that matter, so will my personally owned Kahr P9 Covert that I've been packing since 2004.
This brings me to the M&P 9mm. I've been thinking of adding one or two of these to our training "library" of guns, and I am being offered brand new M&P Full Size or M&P Compacts in 9mm designed for law enforcement sales, with three magazines and tritium night sights at the same price for either. The pricing is quite attractive, about what one would pay for either gun in its cheapest form with standard sights and two magazines off the internet.
I've done a lot of reading so far and watched a lot of YouTube videos on both guns. Unfortunately, apparently nobody on YouTube wants to shoot at a paper target and show groups, and watching a guy stand at 7 yards and ring a big steel target tells me nothing. I can do that with a J-frame. When I read forum posts, comments such as "the gun is more accurate than I am" similarly miss the mark.
Finally, in looking at the posts related to M&P accuracy, I may be missing the right ones, but they all seem to be talking about older production guns with the original trigger, which I gather was horrid, and installing an Apex trigger, which I am told is great, would not serve our needs because the student would not be getting a representative sample of what the gun is like "off the rack" so to speak. I don't really want to buy an M&P just to find out that it won't hold the accuracy I need. But, I'm also told that S&W has re-worked the triggers on these guns and that they are much better now than they used to be.
So, can anyone here advise me on what I can expect accuracy wise, assuming a good, trained shooter with good ammo, from the M&P and the M&P Compact in 9mm as they are shipping now in 2015? Will either gun stay on a 3x5 file card, hung vertically, at 15 meters? Thanks in advance for any on-point replies.
