Neighborhood watch story follow-up

[M&P Freak]

A little less than two months ago I started a thread here about the locals starting armed citizen patrols to reduce crime in the area. See it here: Neighborhood watch on steroids

My concern at the time was about someone getting in legal trouble if someone else developed a chronic case of lead poisoning. Knowing the mood of the local boys, I was sure it was going to happen.

I am happy to say I was wrong. In this week's local newspaper is a story indicating the idea of armed volunteers is catching on. According to the story "The amount of (criminal) activity in O'Brien the past two months has dropped tremendously - it's almost unbelievable. We haven't had very many confrontations because people are laying low. The word is out."

At least two other communities are organizing "community patrol groups" in the surrounding area. I cannot find anything about this on the interwebs, so I cannot provide a link. The local paper is very small and is not available online.

Chalk up another example of more guns equals less crime.

 

[jlrhiner]

A certain group of People always seem to think that when a gun is in the equation, folks become instantly stupid.

If you are an honest, law abiding citizen, you will usually stay that way when you carry a gun. I'm glad it's working out.

 

[photoman]

One word: Zimmerman

 

[jaykellogg]

Slightly more than thirty years ago I knew a man who lived on the east side of Pittsburgh, PA who joined a citizens watch group. The fellow was a ham radio operator (this was before cell phones). When they saw illegal activity they would alert base and base would call the police. They had good relations with the police and the police responded quickly. At first at the request of the police they did this unarmed, but after some success the police agreed that it would be OK for them to arm themselves. They never intended to confront any people engaged illegal activity.

 

[jlrhiner]

One word: Zimmerman

Notice how that's all kinda died down?

 

[tinkerunique]

ONE FACT IS TRUE : An armed citizenry is a more polite one. Some people refuse to be unarmed victims.

 

[Out West]

I like the idea of armed citizens watching out for their families, homes and neighbors. I get a bit worried when I hear they are organizing and going out on patrols. I do not like the idea of vigilantes. Not saying that your example crosses that line, but I'd be a bit leery if were happening where I live. What do the police in your area say about this organization?

Out
West

 

[M&P Freak]

There are no police. The Sheriff is not wild about this situation but attends the meetings and supports the citizens. Logging used to pay for public safety, but eco-nuts shut that down. Voters rejected a property tax levy to fund public safety, so now we're pretty much on our own.

More info: Ore. county cutting law enforcement to bare bones

 

[mc5aw]

I'm not a fan of citizen patrols for the following reasons ...

1) Lack of continuity with respect to training. Unless I know that the armed citizen next to me has received quality training and sufficient practice time, I don't want him/her next me. Over the years, I've had too many muzzle sweeps by "qualified" people at ranges/shows/etc. for my liking. I'm confident in my own skills and knowledge, not so much for everyone else.

2) Napoleon Syndrome. Who's in charge of the Citizen Patrol? How did that person come to be in charge? Too many wannabes out there, who wannabe the boss. Look at some of nonsense that goes on with people who get a dose of power in the reenacting world. I'm not interested in being told what to do by Gecko45, James Yeager, or any other clown with a CCW permit.

3) Backlash from LEOs. I'm not looking to usurp LEOs, nor do their job for them. And I don't want to be viewed as such by my local LEOs or neighbors. I much prefer to protect my family and my modest homestead as I see fit, rather than being responsible for a neighborhood or quadrant.

Do neighborhood patrols have merit? Absolutely. But unless there's continuity in terms of training and chain of command, as well as positive support from local PD and the community, it seems to be a big problem waiting to happen. My 2c ...

 

[photoman]

Notice how that's all kinda died down?

Ask Zimmerman if it has died down...

 

[jaykellogg]

Citizens have almost zero arrest power. I was told in my CCW class that if I was in a confrontation with a BG, I should not try to hold him for police for fear of a kidnapping charge.

What citizens can do though is provide eyes and ears to sworn police officers.

In my county we save thousands of dollars a year by utilizing unpaid reserve deputies. These are folks who have completed the BLET training and have been certified as law enforcement officers. This training and certification have a time limit. If the person does not work as an LEO, then they must go through it again. SO, they work unpaid for the Sheriff's department. In exchange for their time, they get to keep their certification. I believe they have to supply their own equipment.

Regarding the sad case in FL, there is almost zero information about what went on before the confrontation. It is pretty clear that during the confrontation Zimmerman had a man on top of him smashing his head into a concrete sidewalk. He pulled a 9mm pistol and shot the man once. I just hope that politics doesn't push justice aside. I have no firm opinion of the right/wrong of this case. Zimmerman showed poor judgement in lieing to the court about how much money he had. It appears he is going to sue the news for doctoring the 911 tape. I really don't see any good or bad guys in this episode.

 

[Skeptic 9c]

Zimmerman had lousy lawyers who eventually abandoned him. He has new representation. The money was largely speculative and hadn't been vetted via accountants, per one Radio Talk Show here in the NE FL area, the website soliciting was setup by a third party and the original lawyers, nobody knows how much money was really pulled in nor where it went and the IRS is all over poor Zimmerman and family.
Geoff
Who notes Zimmerman is broke now, lost everything and all for trying every way he could to keep his neighborhood from being pulled down into the third world by the usual suspects....no good deed ever goes unpunished.

 

[TexasArmed]

I have never participated in a neighborhood watch although I think it may deter crime. I prefer to deter anyone breaking into my residence.
If I observe illegal actiivty I will call the police. I have insurance that covers my property in the event of burglary,and if it is a home invasion they will not get beyond my front door, and I will call 911 after I stop them.

I just think there is too much possibility of legal problems from none law enforcement people patrolling the neighborhood. I felt that way before the Zimmerman case.

 

[StatesRightist]

I find some of the comments on this subject amusing. What do you think people in this country did for the first hundred plus years in this country? Armed neighbors patrolling their own neighborhoods is what was done. I've got news for you, you might as well get over your phobia, because this is going to become more common as society continues to get more violent and tax dollars are fewer and fewer. Where I live average response time is 30-45 minutes, do the math, that means they clean-up the aftermath, not intervene in the crime being committed.

One other thought, here is the definition of vigilante: some of you apparently need it.

A member of a volunteer committee organized to suppress and punish crime summarily.

Maybe I missed the part where they are hanging people as soon as the catch them, I thought they were turning them over to the police.

 

[mc5aw]

I find some of the comments on this subject amusing. What do you think people in this country did for the first hundred plus years in this country? Armed neighbors patrolling their own neighborhoods is what was done. I've got news for you, you might as well get over your phobia, because this is going to become more common as society continues to get more violent and tax dollars are fewer and fewer. Where I live average response time is 30-45 minutes, do the math, that means they clean-up the aftermath, not intervene in the crime being committed.

One other thought, here is the definition of vigilante: some of you apparently need it.

A member of a volunteer committee organized to suppress and punish crime summarily.

Maybe I missed the part where they are hanging people as soon as the catch them, I thought they were turning them over to the police.

The difference now is that we live in a hyper-litigious society, where every person's action and reaction can be twisted and adjudicated for potential legal and financial gain.

 

[jaykellogg]

There is a middle ground. If you feel a need for a citizen's patrol, it is possible for some citizens to take the BLET course and get certified. Of course, certification can be kept active by the law enforcement agency records of those folks patroling. That way you are both a vigalante and a sworn officer. The fly in the ointment is you would be under the orders of the Sheriff, but you would have arrest powers. Not everyone would have to be certified.

Regarding a comment by StatesRightist, the violent crime rate in the USA is lower today than it was in the 1950s.

An awful lot of crime today is driven by drugs. Selling drugs, buying drugs, the need for money to buy drugs, high on drugs, competition among drug gangs and dealers, etc. If the government could come up with a campaign to make taking drugs "not cool" it would take a lot of pressure off law enforcement if successful. I guarantee if you put out a story that you could get high from drinking Draino there would be several people hurt from trying it. Geeze, I just had hernia surgery. Very painful and I have a perscription for hydrocodone which I didn't even get filled at the pharmacy. I don't understand some people wanting to have some chemical alter their reality.

 

[StatesRightist]

The difference now is that we live in a hyper-litigious society, where every person's action and reaction can be twisted and adjudicated for potential legal and financial gain.

I will not tell you that is not a valid point.

I however, refuse to let the PC freaks and the D.C. hooligans tell me what I can and can't do. If a thug comes to my neighborhood looking for trouble, he made a mistake, there are a lot of guys around here who are EX somethings and know what to do.

 

[StatesRightist]

"Regarding a comment by StatesRightist, the violent crime rate in the USA is lower today than it was in the 1950s."

See me in 5 years, it's obvious where society is headed, just look at our open borders, revolving door justice system, cartels invading etc. I'll guarantee you, you will be less safe then than now.

I'll also be thrilled to be wrong.

 

[Vic303]

Shooting of an off-duty DPD officer yesterday--he was part of a security team hired to protect/patrol a housing area in a bad part of town...They confronted a suspicious male in a vehicle with a scanner and binos, who pulled a .40cal and shot the DPD officer (He will recover from injuries). Took the PD a day to catch the BG. Just goes to show that even being an off duty PD will not protect you from BGs.

 

[tinkerunique]

Seems like a good thing to have around -IF- the "watch" is cool-headed.
ALSO looks like Chicago has a need for such < "budget-cuts" have severely hurt the police force to where there is not enough PD Officers to do a lot to combat crime, thugs and such. Appaers the streets are being "ruled' by dopers and such. I have served as Small Arms Instructor and armed security in the past and make sure that whoever I'm with in a "security situation" have a good background in such or stay back in a stress situation and be the 'backup' if needed. Usually that is never been needed. My neighborhoods (past/present) have had a presence that dictated peace and reasonably quiet except for New Years and 4th of July.