New 10mm Federal Fusion Load

[Univibe]

Sig loads their 180 to about 1230 which is definitely not FBI lite territory. I load mine to about that spec with AA#9.
FBI lite runs .40 spec, maybe 50 fps faster.

If you're going to run 10mm, the only reason for going lite is personal protection.

 

[colt_saa]

The OP said, "1200 fps out of a 6" barrel" which is not at all the same.

I know we are splitting hairs here, but if you're going to challenge my claims I can back them up with actual data via YouTube ballistics channels alone vs. these claimed numbers, not to mention you are misquoting the OP.

Not splitting any hairs here.

I only quoted YOU, not the OP. BTW, the OP said nothing about a 6" barrel

You made the comment below, not some random unknown youtube wannabe.

Underwood is loaded on the hot side of SAAMI specs, not this watered down .40 S&W in a 10mm case we see from all the major ammo makers. As for the XTP bullet, it's a legendary bullet design with excellent penetration and expansion, and one of the better high velocity pistol bullets. Very nice weight retention.

I carry Underwood XTPs in all my 10mms.

I just want to make sure that I understand your viewpoint

You are calling Federal's new 200 grain Fusion load at 1250 FPS a "watered down .40 S&W in a 10mm case"

However you are calling Underwood's 200 grain XTP at 1250 FPS "loaded on the hot side of SAAMI specs"

 

[ProCarryNAustin]

I know we are splitting hairs here, but if you're going to challenge my claims I can back them up with actual data via YouTube ballistics channels alone vs. these claimed numbers, not to mention you are misquoting the OP.

The fact you are splitting hairs undermines your argument.

 

[malph]

Not a Glock 40MOS, they have a 6" barrel. Great hog pistol with a red dot.

I have that exact setup. Glock 40MOS with Trijicon RMR. Despite it feeling like a 2x4 in my hands, I love the combo.

Back on topic, this new 10mm load is a welcome addition.

As a fan of the 10mm, it is great to see industry support the caliber and offer new loads.

Federal tends to offer good products. I'd be surprised if this new load is not a good one.

As to how it stacks up against the Underwood and BB offerings, we will just have to wait and see.

 

[The_Truth]

Not splitting any hairs here.

Yes, you are, and you are either accidentally or intentionally misquoting me.

I only quoted YOU, not the OP. BTW, the OP said nothing about a 6" barrel

No, you didn't quote me. You misquoted me, TWICE now. Also, it was YOU who said something about a 6" barrel. That was my mistake.

You made the comment below, not some random unknown youtube wannabe.

Who said anything about a random YouTube wannabe? Your bias is showing. I'm talking about utilizing actual real life chronograph data, not just some random idiot's opinion.

I just want to make sure that I understand your viewpoint

That doesn't seem to be what you're doing at all here. What you're doing is misquoting me then propping up a strawman with that misquote and asking me, "Is this what you are saying?" My original reply clarifying my claim, which you asked me to do, is in plain English, easy to understand. There's no need to reconstruct my post to say something I did not say then ask me if I said it.

You are calling Federal's new 200 grain Fusion load at 1250 FPS a "watered down .40 S&W in a 10mm case"

You are, for some reason, taking this completely out of the context of the sentence I wrote and running with it. Yes, I am comparing this Fusion stuff to the likes of other industry leaders who download their 10mm offerings, but no, in the sentence that I wrote, I am referring to what "we see from all the major ammo makers" as "watered down 40 S&W in a 10mm case," not Federal Fusion.

The fact you are splitting hairs undermines your argument.

This adds nothing to the conversation. I am not splitting hairs. This is a valid argument, and the "hair splitting" is the fact that colt-saa has misquoted me more than once now.

 

[ProCarryNAustin]

At best it is 50fps at 1200 something. Your argument apparently is due to some personal issue or interest and not on the facts. Stdev between rounds at that pressure could easily be 25fps.

From earlier posts
"I know we are splitting hairs here"
And then
"I am not splitting hairs. This is a valid argument"

Guessing you are just here for an argument.

To the original poster, thank you!
Have always had good results from Federal.
More choices in 10mm is a good thing!

 

[The_Truth]

Hey look colt-saa, I quite enjoy your posts and I don't want to seem as if I'm being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative towards you. You're definitely one of my more favoriter posters here. But you didn't quote my post #8 100% in its entirety at all. I've already highlighted your mistake in my last reply which you may have ignored.

Here is my reply #8 actually quoted 100% in its entirety.

Underwood is loaded on the hot side of SAAMI specs, not this watered down .40 S&W in a 10mm case we see from all the major ammo makers. As for the XTP bullet, it's a legendary bullet design with excellent penetration and expansion, and one of the better high velocity pistol bullets. Very nice weight retention.

I carry Underwood XTPs in all my 10mms.

Here is what you consider quoting this same post 100% in its entirety, which is clearly a paraphrase and an inaccurate one at that because you've replaced the number 1200 with 1250 in regards to Fusion velocity:

You are calling Federal's new 200 grain Fusion load at 1250 FPS a "watered down .40 S&W in a 10mm case"

However you are calling Underwood's 200 grain XTP at 1250 FPS "loaded on the hot side of SAAMI specs"

Nowhere in my post #8 did I make the claim that Federal's new 200 grain Fusion load is listed as 1250FPS, and nowhere in my post #8 did I claim that Federal's new 200 grain Fusion load is a "watered down .40 S&W in a 10mm case." As I've already said, you are paraphrasing my actual claim out of context to make it appear as if I'm making a totally different claim. The first half of your "understanding" is completely wrong.

Hope this provides the clarification you were seeking.


Now as for ProCarryNAustin,

At best it is 50fps at 1200 something. Your argument apparently is due to some personal issue or interest and not on the facts. Stdev between rounds at that pressure could easily be 25fps.

The velocity numbers we are discussing are averages which already take into account standard deviation. The FACT is that 1250FPS average out of a 4.5" barrel is SIGNIFICANTLY more velocity than 1200FPS average out of a 6" barrel, not just 50FPS with a stdev of +/-25FPS. Using the phrase "watered down .40 S&W" may have been somewhat hyperbolic, but the reality is that a lot of leading ammo makers are selling 10mm ammo which is on the very low end of 10mm velocities.

The longer the barrel the more velocity. These numbers are misleading due to different barrel lengths being used to obtain the data. I'm not arguing a personal opinion, I'm arguing actual data. I have nothing against Federal Fusion in fact I exclusively carry 120gr Fusion soft points in my 6.5 Grendel rifle and I love them.

I appreciate both of your comments and mean no ill will towards either of you personally. I love 10mm!!!!!

 

[ddixie884]

Yes

I have a box of XTP loads for my 10MM,,
and I have a box of "Black Talons" 10MM,,

Do I need these Fusion rounds,, also?

Federal insists on it........

 

[Racer X]

Hmmm. I forgot about the Black Talons... How fast are they moving ? Does anybody know ? I don't think Winchester put the info on the box?

Black Talons are not the Holy Grail defensive load. The stopped coating them black, because that made them "Evil", and now call them Ranger T. Very common/popular law enforcement load. Come in P+ also.

I have several boxes of the original 20 count 147 9mm Black Talons buried somewhere. And some ElDorado PMC Starfires.

Israeli Military (IMI) makes their own under a licensing agreement/partnership with Winchester/Olin. For a long time they were very common on Gun Broker in 50 ct boxes for a reasonable price in the late '90s.

I would really like to try some of the Ranger T 127 +P rounds in gel.

 

[rbmac52]

To The Truth and colt saa, please stop trying to ruin this thread with your back and forth. Take it to pmail, if you must. Normally, I appreciate what you both have to say, but not in this case. Thank you.

 

[Erocksmash]

Black Talons are not the Holy Grail defensive load. The stopped coating them black, because that made them "Evil", and now call them Ranger T. Very common/popular law enforcement load. Come in P+ also.

I have several boxes of the original 20 count 147 9mm Black Talons buried somewhere. And some ElDorado PMC Starfires.

Israeli Military (IMI) makes their own under a licensing agreement/partnership with Winchester/Olin. For a long time they were very common on Gun Broker in 50 ct boxes for a reasonable price in the late '90s.

I would really like to try some of the Ranger T 127 +P rounds in gel.

I have 147gr Rangers stacked in the EDC... I was more interested in the 10mm Talons as I collect older ammo like that, I have a box of each with the accepting of the 10mm and .44mag...