New .38sp ammo too small?

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38+P Fan

I thought that the 38 spl was inadequate for the longest time. That's why I purchased a 357 mag J frame. What I found was that 357's out of a scandium chiefs special are brutal for recoil. This made me research the 38. I looked into the Speer 135 grain short bbl +P load. It expands nicely and penetrates a minimum of 11 inches through all of the FBI protocol barriers except wallboard. It only penetrates 10 inches in drywall. I can't ever see myself shooting blindly through walls, so I don't care about this 10 inch data. I also found that this round from Speer is fun to shoot from my 442, and not brutal like 357's through my M&P360. I am sold on the 38 with the right load. 38 spl is also the most popular caliber according to wikipedia. You should read the wikipedia article on the 38 spl. Very interesting. My 442 and the 38+P are now my favorite revolver/ammo combo, and my everyday CCW.
 
Today's projectiles are orders of magnitude better than what was available when most opinions of the .38 Special were formed. Velocity could still be improved, and with it, energy, but that is true across the board.

I've seen men shot with poor .38 special loads outrun the officer who shot them and seen others shot with a good load drop like a rock. Research your load, shoot what looks good, pick one and practice with it.

Like Erich says shot placement is king, God save the queen and angels win pin shoots (or something like that - but I agree with the shot placement part).

Then carry it and you will be better protected than 95% (or more) of the population.
 
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I've been loading my SD revolvers lately with some of Winchester's new Supreme Elite Bonded PDX1 - 130gr 38spl+P. The bonded PDX1 JHP is supposedly the new FBI bullet of choice, and I've never felt that my .357's were underpowered for SD with .38spl+P, and it allows me better control then full load .357s so my shot placement is better.
 
We're in the day and age when mall cowboys consider you undergunned if you don't have 17+ in the magazine, or at least something that ends in "magnum". Too many video games and action flicks, too little common sense. An assailant shot in the head with a .22 rimfire will fall down and stay down. A criminal shot in the love handles with a 44mag might just get real, real mad at you. A cool head, steady aim and one round will stop almost any fight, regardless of what caliber you're using.
 
pinkymingeo said:
We're in the day and age when mall cowboys consider you undergunned if you don't have 17+ in the magazine, or at least something that ends in "magnum". Too many video games and action flicks, too little common sense. An assailant shot in the head with a .22 rimfire will fall down and stay down. A criminal shot in the love handles with a 44mag might just get real, real mad at you. A cool head, steady aim and one round will stop almost any fight, regardless of what caliber you're using.
Click to expand...

Actually, I once knew a man who hit a thug in the chest four times with a .44 Magnum, and the man ran for blocks, no vital organ being hit. That officer switched to a Model 19 with full .357 loads, and resovled to aim better.

I often use a .357 with good HP loads for home defense. I think it or a 9mm with good placement will usually suffice.

T-Star
 
tiptoe2lups said:
In other forums the general consensus is that .38sp is too small. Pea shooter small.
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Ask those posters if they want to meet and stand in front of your .38 when you fire it. You could even spot them 30 or 40 feet from the muzzle to be fair.

Welcome to the Forum.
 
Early in my career as a Forensic Pathologist "digging out" projectiles from fatalities, some 40 years ago, it was .22 and .25 and a few .38sp. 40 years later it is .38 sp. and 9mm (the drug crowd's favorite). Very few people get killed with bigger and more powerful projectiles, but when they do it is usually a "knock down". As previously stated, shot placement is the key!
 
PRACTICE with your S&W and become proficient. The .38 special cartridge will then be a very good self defense round.
 
I am using Erich's line: Bullet placement is king, penetration is queen, everything else is angels dancing on the head of a pin.
Says it all. Works for any caliber, anywhere, anytime.
 
Texas Star said:
Actually, I once knew a man who hit a thug in the chest four times with a .44 Magnum, and the man ran for blocks, no vital organ being hit. That officer switched to a Model 19 with full .357 loads, and resovled to aim better.

I often use a .357 with good HP loads for home defense. I think it or a 9mm with good placement will usually suffice.

you have got to be kidding me????? no human being would remain standing after 4 .44 mag shots....... period!!!! a standard 357 load is a weaker load than a standard 44 mag load...i know...i own both.i have no doubt what so ever that 1 shot to the torso with a 44 mag will drop any average human being...lets be real about what were talking about here.
Click to expand...
 
I carry Hydra-Shok +P in my 642. I don't feel undergunned at all. In fact, this is a switch UP from my Bersa .380. Numbers-wise it's about 25% more energy, but as has been mentioned several times already - shot placement is everything. You can miss as hard and fast as you want; I'll take a slow accurate hit any day.

If you want more power, step on up to a 9mm or larger. Same diameter as a .38 (.355 to the .38's .358) and a hair more muzzle velocity.

I guess what it really comes down to is ... practice. Know your gun and yourself and practice practice practice.
 
Several years ago a local deputy was shot three times in the upper torso with a 44mag. He was out of the fight, but lived to tell the tale. Handgun ammo doesn't have the velocity for the shock wave to be a factor, so damage is limited to the entry wound, exit wound (if there is one) and the channel in between. Two holes is the most damage you can do, regardless of muzzle energy. I CCW my handloads, and they aren't max. I load to a level that I think will provide two holes, and no further.
 
schmumble said:
you have got to be kidding me????? no human being would remain standing after 4 .44 mag shots....... period!!!! a standard 357 load is a weaker load than a standard 44 mag load...i know...i own both.i have no doubt what so ever that 1 shot to the torso with a 44 mag will drop any average human being...lets be real about what were talking about here.
Click to expand...

When you say that you have no doubt, I believe you. However, that does not make what you don't doubt true. How many human beings have you seen shot with four times, or even once, with a .44 mag? How many with other cartridges? Have you read any factual reports of shootings? Have you discussed wounds with any emergency-room doctors, or others who have actually observed a fair number of shootings, or at least their eventual effects? Have you ever been shot? Have you used other ways of learning the varying effects of having a small channel almost instantaneously punched in one or another part of your thorax?

Both a .357 and a .44 can be used with projectiles which will completely penetrate a human body, some doing so slightly expanded. I think that the point of Texas Star's friend's switch was to shoot better with a gun which would still accomplish the mission if used properly.
 
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