With the recent shooting at UCSB in california, calls for more gun bans has been voiced by your typical left wing media outlets. To top that off, one of the murdered victim's father openly called for more bans yesterday at UCSB's remembrance rally yesterday afternoon. What do you think? 2nd 3rd 4th 5th.. round of hoarding beginning again?
New ammo shortage over the horizon?
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MichiganScott
Member
I must have slept through the part where the shortage ended.
The Department of Homeland Security is buying less ammunition this year. As reported by the NRA, anyway. If that's true the ammo shortage might be relieved some. The troops are coming home from the Middle East in the near future. That should help some, too. We'll see.
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Victims and/or victims families calling for more bans is an outcry of pain - they're hurting, they're angry, and rightfully so. But except for the vehemently anti-gun folks the rest of the country sees it for what it really is - a mental health issue. The media, from what I can tell, is very much focused on the mental health angle - PLUS - this piece of work killed three people with a knife. The media seems to have noticed that, too - it's really hard for sensible people who are not emotionally overwrought due to this tragedy to argue for more gun control or bans on firearms when 50% of the victims were stabbed - the mental health aspect is where the focus is because proper mental heath treatment can, MAYBE, prevent these tragedies either by (1) a cure, (2) foresight, and/or (3) a record that pops up on a background check.
If the mental health situation doesn't improve we'll continue to see these types of tragic events because it is virtually NEVER a person in control of all of his or her faculties. Even the recent Kansas City incident, clearly a specifically anti-Semitic event, was conducted by a raging Jew-hater. Never mind that a victim or two wasn't Jewish! They were hanging around a Jewish place; what does that say about this idiot's mental health?. Was this preventable? Maybe not. But it's still a mental health issue.
***GRJ***
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Victims and/or victims families calling for more bans is an outcry of pain - they're hurting, they're angry, and rightfully so. But except for the vehemently anti-gun folks the rest of the country sees it for what it really is - a mental health issue. The media, from what I can tell, is very much focused on the mental health angle - PLUS - this piece of work killed three people with a knife. The media seems to have noticed that, too - it's really hard for sensible people who are not emotionally overwrought due to this tragedy to argue for more gun control or bans on firearms when 50% of the victims were stabbed - the mental health aspect is where the focus is because proper mental heath treatment can, MAYBE, prevent these tragedies either by (1) a cure, (2) foresight, and/or (3) a record that pops up on a background check.
If the mental health situation doesn't improve we'll continue to see these types of tragic events because it is virtually NEVER a person in control of all of his or her faculties. Even the recent Kansas City incident, clearly a specifically anti-Semitic event, was conducted by a raging Jew-hater. Never mind that a victim or two wasn't Jewish! They were hanging around a Jewish place; what does that say about this idiot's mental health?. Was this preventable? Maybe not. But it's still a mental health issue.
***GRJ***
ArchAngelCD
Moderator, SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
IMO it's not a good idea to give anyone bad ideas or even mention another shortage, especially when the current one is still going on. Someone reads what you said incorrectly and repeats the mistake elsewhere and it's off to the races, again!
MarTay6
Member
I wish more people would wake up and realize how many people are killed each and every day in drunk driving related accidents. We hear these tragic outcries when 3-4 or 8 or 10 people are killed by an out-of-control gunmen- yet we fail to raise a cry over the nearly 31 people killed on an average EACH AND EVERY DAY OF THE YEAR in dui-related deaths. Where's the outcry there? Why are we not crying out to ban alcohol like we are guns? Or cars, for that matter??? A car killing someone with a drunk driver at the wheel is no different than a gun killing someone in the hands of a mentally unstable person.
10,228 people killed in 2010 in dui related accidents. That's nearly 31 a day. One every 48 minutes. Where is the outcry there???
Wes
10,228 people killed in 2010 in dui related accidents. That's nearly 31 a day. One every 48 minutes. Where is the outcry there???
Wes
skypilot1941
Member
MarTay6 that is exactly what I have been saying in any avenue which I can for years. But, you never hear any media source say anything about dui related deaths.
scattershot
Member
smokindog
Member
You identify a possible/plausible scenario and then you call people who prepare "hoarders". I'm just wondering why people never seem to learn.......
Anyone have any Apple stock they want to sell me for what they paid back in the '80's? Google, anyone for Google at IPO prices? All I can find are these outrageous prices from these "stock exchange" gougers. I bet they get up every morning and wait for "the exchange" to open so they can buy it all and sell it at a profit. Flipper/gouger/ingrates! Probably the same 6 retired or jobless people every day!
Anyone have any Apple stock they want to sell me for what they paid back in the '80's? Google, anyone for Google at IPO prices? All I can find are these outrageous prices from these "stock exchange" gougers. I bet they get up every morning and wait for "the exchange" to open so they can buy it all and sell it at a profit. Flipper/gouger/ingrates! Probably the same 6 retired or jobless people every day!
I see minimal impact. California's reaction to this (so far) has been to propose a way to prevent people who are being treated for mental illness from acquiring firearms. One would have to clear another hurdle or two. They really have no where else to go. The state is already a gun control utopia. Even the "left wing" media is pointing out that this guy used a knife to kill 3 of his victims. This nut job cleared 3 10 day waits to get 3 guns with a 10 round magazine limit. As for an ammo shortage, I'm betting that the hoarders already have everything they want. CNN will go back to looking for that airplane any minute now.
gwpercle
Member
At some point in time the hoarders have to run out of storage space.
I imagine their houses stacked full of ammo, floor to ceiling, with only a path from room to room. Then when they have run out of space the supply might return....God only knows when that might be. Still can't buy 22 LR ammo at local store....it's been years since I was able to buy a box. I will tell me grandchildren about the good old days when you walked into a store and bought all the ammo you wanted. They won't believe me....that old man is just making up stories again.
That airplane???? just ask Morgan Freeman, he can tell you all about that wormhole it flew through...gone into the 4th dimension.
Gary
I imagine their houses stacked full of ammo, floor to ceiling, with only a path from room to room. Then when they have run out of space the supply might return....God only knows when that might be. Still can't buy 22 LR ammo at local store....it's been years since I was able to buy a box. I will tell me grandchildren about the good old days when you walked into a store and bought all the ammo you wanted. They won't believe me....that old man is just making up stories again.
That airplane???? just ask Morgan Freeman, he can tell you all about that wormhole it flew through...gone into the 4th dimension.
Gary
smokindog
Member
Come over to Texas, it's on the shelves quite regularly and not just in the morning. I take the time to look whenever I pass a Walmart. That 5-10 minute investment of time for each stop has paid off handsomely over the past year. In fact the Walmart stores around here have gone back to using two cabinets again and lifted their 3 box limit on all but 22LR. Only difference is the price is about 15-20% higher than when I bought most of it. Time value of money!!!!
BTW, I've got a 1200 sq ft space over the garage that has plenty of room
Then there's the lake house, the mother-in-laws, the .......... Space will NEVER be scarce!
BTW, I've got a 1200 sq ft space over the garage that has plenty of room
Then there's the lake house, the mother-in-laws, the .......... Space will NEVER be scarce!
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normanlclark
Member
GUILTY
Something wrong with hoarding ammo?
Something wrong with hoarding ammo?
I'm not an ammo hoarder, I'm an ammo collector. A full box of S&W black box 32RF (model 2 picture box) would sell in todays market for $13K +. Given the improvements in medicine, if I can just hang in there for another for another 95 years or so, I'll be rich. 
brokenprism
US Veteran
I noticed right away that though he killed at least 1/3 (apparently 1/2?) with a knife, he wasn't a 'knifeman,' he was a 'gunman.' Always. Never just a... Killer. Always a gunman. Chaps my Twinkies something awful from a social engineering perspective, but worse than anything is the loss of those kids and I feel for the parents. I'd be out of my mind if I lost my daughter.
WARCOLLECT
Member
I called Winchester customer service looking Win 231. They said they were starting to ship powder they have almost completed government contracts.
jimbo728
Member
Blunt instruments are the number 1 murder weapon. People are not hoarding ball peen hammers, nor does any law require a BR check.
I want my WW 231 back!
Jim
I want my WW 231 back!
Jim
TexasRider
Member
Yay on the 231 .
Contradictory But True
It's debatable whether or not we face a new ammo shortage or if we're still in the grips of the current one. However, I shoot at an outdoor police range and every time I'm there I pick up at least a half dozen live .22 RF rounds that shooters have ejected from their pistols, for whatever reason, and didn't bother to pick up. These include untouched ammo as well as some with one firing pin strike that will often fire on the second attempt.
In the course of a year, I pick up about half a brick of assorted .22 RF ammo and enough .40 S&W factory ammo to fill several boxes, in the latter case, courtesy of the various police agencies using the range for qualification fire.
I've seen no reduction in range use at two ranges I use, leading me to believe that if the members have ammo, they will shoot it.
It's debatable whether or not we face a new ammo shortage or if we're still in the grips of the current one. However, I shoot at an outdoor police range and every time I'm there I pick up at least a half dozen live .22 RF rounds that shooters have ejected from their pistols, for whatever reason, and didn't bother to pick up. These include untouched ammo as well as some with one firing pin strike that will often fire on the second attempt.
In the course of a year, I pick up about half a brick of assorted .22 RF ammo and enough .40 S&W factory ammo to fill several boxes, in the latter case, courtesy of the various police agencies using the range for qualification fire.
I've seen no reduction in range use at two ranges I use, leading me to believe that if the members have ammo, they will shoot it.
Kilibreaux
Member
When the majority of the people start believing "everything" is a conspiracy, the Government need no longer worry about creating a cover story.
Powder manufacturers want to sell product. IF their product is not being bought up by someone at bulk prices on the front end, said powder IS GOING to find its way to the public market. All conspiracies aside, I find it ridiculous to believe the companies who make smokeless POWDER would be in bed with the government to insure the private citizen has no access to powder...but hey, I may have missed something in the grand, over-arching conspiracy against all mankind.
Powder manufacturers want to sell product. IF their product is not being bought up by someone at bulk prices on the front end, said powder IS GOING to find its way to the public market. All conspiracies aside, I find it ridiculous to believe the companies who make smokeless POWDER would be in bed with the government to insure the private citizen has no access to powder...but hey, I may have missed something in the grand, over-arching conspiracy against all mankind.
jimbo728
Member
All I can say is that ammo and supply was always there before and it is hard to get now. Primers, powder and even caps for Cap and ball and muzzle loaders. This makes me suspicious. Also, I understand our last lead producer has been shut down.
The problem is systemic and it was not before 2004.
I hope we can resolve this in 2016.
Jim
The problem is systemic and it was not before 2004.
I hope we can resolve this in 2016.
Jim
I've never stopped buying brass, powder, bullets and primers. When I see a deal I buy it. Just bought another 3K of primers and 1K bullets, both discounted. The shortage of one item may disappear but something else will become impossible to get. Right now I'm waiting for brass and 22LR to show up again at pre panic prices. If it does I will buy enough to last me a very long time.
I'm betting the shortage won't end. I'm selling guns to buy ammo now.
I'm betting the shortage won't end. I'm selling guns to buy ammo now.
Our problem is a very simple one. Its DEMAND. Manufactures have not increased production capacity anywhere near the level to handle the over 20 million new gun owners. A number that increases every day.
They like many of us got caught flatfooted at the end of 2012 and the beginning of 2013. By this point in time there was no way to catch up. Its now June of 2014 and calibers in 22S,22L,22LR and 22WMR cannot be found and when they are available purchases are limited. Regular CF pistol ammo is really one or two deliveries away from empty shelves. Of course prices have increased all around with no change in sight. Yea I know there is the occasional reduction even if its a momentary reduction but the trend on prices is continuing upwards.
I suspect that ammo companies are reluctant to invest in new production capacity, because they don't want to be stuck with (unprofitable) excess capacity in the future.
[Febuary 2014] "Cabela's Inc., an outdoor gear retailer, cited a sharp drop-off in sales of guns and ammunition when it reported Thursday a 10.1% decline in fourth-quarter sales, excluding newly opened or closed stores. Its shares dropped by as much as 13%."The surge in firearms and ammunition is clearly winding down," Chief Executive Thomas Millner said, referring to the sales run-up as "a bubble."
Cabela's Says U.S. Gun Purchases Are Slowing, Hitting Fourth Quarter Same-Store Sales - WSJ.com
Mcwsky09
Member
I'm waiting for the day when the hoarders are so hard up for cash they have to sell at below market prices
I've got my reloading down to about 10¢ a round using total metal jacket projectiles. Could drop it lower if I start casting my own projectiles.
I suspect we are going to see hoarding for a long time after whatever latest atrocity has been committed.
I suspect that some folks don't get upset about DUI for a number of reasons, in the back of their minds they know it could be them behind the wheel after drinking someday, or aren't afraid they could be victims of a drunk driver believing they can avoid the drunk driver more easily than a speeding bullet, the 24 hour news doesn't have minute by minute of coverage of motor vehicle accidents or pundits claiming that the drunk driver was racists or a terrorist etc, and perhaps a little bit of thinking that if I don't "need" a gun then no one else should either.
I've got my reloading down to about 10¢ a round using total metal jacket projectiles. Could drop it lower if I start casting my own projectiles.
I suspect we are going to see hoarding for a long time after whatever latest atrocity has been committed.
I suspect that some folks don't get upset about DUI for a number of reasons, in the back of their minds they know it could be them behind the wheel after drinking someday, or aren't afraid they could be victims of a drunk driver believing they can avoid the drunk driver more easily than a speeding bullet, the 24 hour news doesn't have minute by minute of coverage of motor vehicle accidents or pundits claiming that the drunk driver was racists or a terrorist etc, and perhaps a little bit of thinking that if I don't "need" a gun then no one else should either.
There's a lot of talk about the anti-gun folks acting out of fear or panic, but that's PRECISELY what's driving the ammo (and component) shortage among gun owners.
Fear that someone is coming for their guns or ammo.
Panic about non-issues, such as the closing of the last domestic primary lead smelter.
I have see the enemy, and he is us.
Fear that someone is coming for their guns or ammo.
Panic about non-issues, such as the closing of the last domestic primary lead smelter.
I have see the enemy, and he is us.
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