New AR guy being pulled to the dark side

[Parrot-Head]

Help! New guy getting ready to buy first AR. Really like the Sport 2, but the Anderson AM15 keeps popping up in the back of my mind. (maybe partially because I live 3 miles from Anderson).

Give me pros/cons all around?
Do I need to be concerned about 1:9 vs 1:8 for a general plinking range fun gun?

 

[cyphertext]

Which Anderson AM15 are you looking at? What features does it have that you want vs. the features on the Sport? Does it come close to the way you want your rifle right out of the box?

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

For your stated purposes, 1-9 or 1-8 is fine. So is 1-7. In similar configurations, both Anderson and S&W would be fine choices.

"Pros and cons all around"

Well... as Cypher mentioned above, purchasing an AR in the configuration you want is key. By far, the most common issue I see is purchasing a standard configuration rifle with plastic handguard and A2 front sight then wanting to change it to a longer free float handguard and eliminate the A2 front sight with a folding sight or none at all.

Once ya got the configuration set in yer head, that's the time to consider brands. If ya want A or B great. But if ya really want B but are thinking of buying A to save a couple bucks, I'd suggest think about it some more.

Happy AR hunting.

A

B

 

[Parrot-Head]

Thanks for the input. I think for my first AR, I don't see myself getting into free floating a hand guard and feel like the common
A2 sight would serve my purposes.

If I wanted to get into deep modifications like that at a later date, I could always look into getting another at a later date.

On the other hand, I can see the appeal of a OR rifle, but then I would have to turn around and spend more $ on sights right away also.

 

[cyphertext]

On the other hand, I can see the appeal of a OR rifle, but then I would have to turn around and spend more $ on sights right away also.

Choice B does not equal OR (Optics ready is really a misnomer, since you can use optics with the A2 front sight)... There are rifles that come with the flip up sights out of the box that are not that much more than the price of the Sport, basically the price of the Sport plus the rail (or less).

But if you think you want the fixed front sight, nothing wrong with that... I like the A2 sight myself.

 

[C J]

I have never shot an AM15 but I do own a Sport and another AR. The Sport is way more accurate than I expected. It's also been flawless since I bought it. I like the stock setup except for the fact it has no heat shield. I replaced that which cost about $35. I added a red dot and I couldn't be happier with it. The S&W warranty is pretty important too.

 

[Flash_80]

Just get a Sport. If you get more into it down the line, upgrade. I've got over 30 guns in the house, and a Sig M400 for a few years before I got the Sport and I don't have any issue with it. I added a bunch of junk to it of course, but it was a good gun out of the box.

 

[WR Moore]

The AR accessory market has probably put more kids through college/paid off mortgages than any recent development that isn't transistorized. The purposes you mention would be well served by a Sport. You can always accessorize/reconfigure later.

Somewhere on the internet, there are pictures of ARs buried in accessories. My favorite has a Rolls hood ornament and a '55 Chevy spotlight among other "had to haves".

 

[agksimon]

My Sport 2, using IMI 55 grain, FMJ, can benchrest 1-2 inch, 100 yard groups, with a 3X Vortex Spitfire scope, with very rarely a flyer. Someday, I'll try a high power scope on it, as I believe it's capable of even better. I got very lucky with this one.

 

[Parrot-Head]

Thanks for all the replies. Will keep my eye open for a deal on a Sport 2.

 

[lrrifleman]

@OP,

I shoot ARs in competition a lot. I use to shoot a Colt HBAR in Service Rifle competitions before I became disabled. I now shoot a home built (more like assembled) AR for use in F T/R matches, ranging from 600 to 1000 yards.

Please allow me to address your questions.
1. Re: twist ... this will influence how far you want to shoot accurately. [Re: accuracy, I am looking at it as a target shooter striving for 1.5 MOA as a service rifle, about 0.6 MOA for a match rifle.]
1a. With a 1:9 twist, the heaviest bullet you can launch accurately would be close to a 72gr, out to about 500 yards, maybe 600 on a really good wind free day. Expect that you could launch a 55gr bullet accurately to about 300 yards, but pray if you have much wind.
1b. With a 1:8 twist, you can launch an 80-85gr bullet accurately to about a thousand yards, provided that you keep the bullet supersonic at the target. It should launch a 55gr bullet accurately to about 300 yards, also. On paper, I have a working thousand yard load, but it peters out by 1017 yards ... it is hard to test, since my home range is 1039 yards.
2. Re: plastic or nylon handguard. The handguard does much more than keeping your hand from getting burned by a hot barrel! Not all handguards are free floating. The handguard is under considerable stress from the torque inflicted by the sling, when you use a sling. Personally, I would recommend that you look at a rifle with a metal (aluminum or steel) handguard, which does free float the barrel.

As an aside. Unless you are equipping your entire family, you can get away with a single lower, with any variety of uppers. I have 3 interchangeable uppers for my "AR", a 26" 1:8 heavy barrel that is free floated for F class matches, a 24" 1:8 heavy varmint barreled upper that was going to be my "spacegun" match rifle before I became disabled, and an 18" 1:8 heavy barrel for a CQB rifle. All of my rifles are mission specific, and in this case, an AR platform can be adapted to a specific mission in under 3 minutes! In some instances, you can build an upper for under $125. Consider purchasing an AR with a quality lower, and run from there. A 1:8 twist can be more versatile and not limit your ammo selection. You can also change cartridges within "family", just by changing the upper.

 

[AuDoc]

I have an Anderson Optic Ready AM 15 and I like it. Nice bare bones start. What drew me to it was the fact I want paying a ridiculous price for all the fluff Id end up changing anyway. As it turns out I haven't changed anything but the stock, (a bit too bare bones)

I'm also a former M&P 15 owner.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Thanks for all the replies. Will keep my eye open for a deal on a Sport 2.

Anything under $500 is good. You might find a special sale closer to $450 during the holidays.

$489 - Smith and Wesson M&P-15 Sport II Black .223 / 5.56 NATO 16-inch 30Rd

 

[cyphertext]

I have an Anderson Optic Ready AM 15 and I like it. Nice bare bones start. What drew me to it was the fact I want paying a ridiculous price for all the fluff Id end up changing anyway. As it turns out I haven't changed anything but the stock, (a bit too bare bones)

I'm also a former M&P 15 owner.

I remember you... you are the guy that destroyed the upper and turned the lower into the police department instead of giving S&W a second chance at repair...

 

[C J]

With a 1:9 twist, the heaviest bullet you can launch accurately would be close to a 72gr, out to about 500 yards

I have a bolt action .223 with a 26" barrel. It likes 75 gr. bullets (Sierra boat tail to be exact) best of all especially at 500 yards. I've shot groups as small as 1" at 500 yards with it. It probably averages about 6" if the wind isn't real bad. If the winds is blowing a lot I don't try to shoot past 300 yards.

 

[agksimon]

I have a bolt action .223 with a 26" barrel. It likes 75 gr. bullets (Sierra boat tail to be exact) best of all especially at 500 yards. I've shot groups as small as 1" at 500 yards with it. It probably averages about 6" if the wind isn't real bad. If the winds is blowing a lot I don't try to shoot past 300 yards.

I was going to call bull on this, until I read this:
Amazing! Wagner Shoots 0.349″ (50-2X) Group at 600 Yards << Daily Bulletin

There were other articles about amazing, 5-600, even thousand yard, verified shot groups. Good shooting.

 

[C J]

I was going to call bull on this, until I read this:

This video shows someone shooting 450 yards with the exact same rifle I'm using. They are accurate shooters. The group in the video is typical for what I'm seeing with my Savage 12 LRPV. I have links where shooters in F/TR have done really well with basically the same rifle against custom built rifles if you'd like to see those. The one group I shot that was really accurate was a lot of luck and a really good batch of ammo. As soon as it ran out so did the accuracy on that level. But with the right loads I can shoot pretty consistent as long as the wind isn't bad.

The club I started to join near Cincinnati has a 600 yard competition. I talked to the range master and he said nearly everyone shooting well was using the LRPV. But the guy in your link was shooting 6mm Dasher which is a much better round for long distance. People do amazing stuff with that caliber.

Savage Arms Model 12 LRPV at 450yds - YouTube

 

[Triathloncoach]

Some people prefer the entry level Ruger over the Sport 2. I don’t own either, but I believe the Ruger has a 1/7 twist.

 

[agksimon]

Some people prefer the entry level Ruger over the Sport 2. I don’t own either, but I believe the Ruger has a 1/7 twist.

One in eight.

 

[Parrot-Head]

Does the Sport 2 have M4 feed ramps? I'm taking a close look at the Del-Ton Echo for the price it has some nice features. The spec information on the S&W site is pretty sparse.