New GSF - S&W 586 no dash - ID help?

[JayHutch]

Morning gang,

Gun show find, I need some ID help.

I've been looking for a companion 586 for my current manufacture S&W 686-6. Found one yesterday @ a local gun show that met my price/quality expectations. In fact, it exceeded them. It's an early 586 (no dash), with adjustable target rear sights and 4 position adjustable front sights. I've read about, but never seen those front sights. They look factory. Price later in this report. I'm including some pic's since we all seem to like a little gun porn.

The questions I have are these:
1) I'm aware of the 586 no dash and 586-1 recall, but curious about the "M" stamp. I couldn't tell from my research exactly where the "M" stamp would be. I'm not terribly concerned about it even if this one hasn't had the factory mod. You'll see in photo #6 an "E" circled & "M" in triangle along with an assembly code (1st pic of 2nd post - only 5 photos at a time) Is that the "M" stamp I've heard reference? If not any comments on sending it in?
2) Please note the original box end (matching ser #): You will note the markings of how the revolver came from S&W. I'm wondering what of this pistol is, original equipment. It shows Product Code of 103526 and Spec Ord 6083. Does anyone know what Spec Ord 6083 would represent? It also shows Stock = TS and Features = AF. I think the TS means "target/speedloader"? I'm thinking the grips may not be original, since they don't fit quite right. They are also clearly marked August 28, 1986 which is probably too late for a 586 no dash right? The very last pic in post #2 shows why I think the stocks aren't original. They are perfect, like brand new, but proud at the top and not flush @ bottom of backstrap.
3) I see the Product Code listed in my SCSW (6" B TS AF 1986) but have always had trouble dating from serial number with my Smith's. Obviously I must not know how to use my SCSW. Seems product code suggests 1986. Don't know what the other codes represent (TS AF). This is ser # AJY6xxx. Can anyone ID a manufacture date from that number? I guess the 586 no dash was made from 1981 to 1986 when the -1 came out.
4) Last, the front sight is quite interesting and they certainly seem "factory". How do they work? 4 tiny allen screws top and recessed wheel below. Any way to know if what I have, & what you see, is how this beautiful revolver left the factory?

I have to say that the knowledgeable members of this forum have soooooo increased my enjoyment of S&W products, it's hard to describe. I guess all I can say is THANK YOU Smith & Wesson Forum, and THANK YOU in advance for any assistance members may have on this gun show find. I've been extremely lucky this spring summer & fall. GSF's of a perfect S&W M52-2 (OMG what a pistol), 95% M13-2 in blue and another 13-2 in nickel, 90% M539 & a beautiful old Marlin 1894C (.357 JM). No steal's, but all reasonably priced resulting in a heck of a lot of fun this summer!

Any assistance on this on this one is greatly appreciated.

- hutch

 

[JayHutch]

New GSF - S&W 586 no dash - ID help #2?

Here are the remaining pic's for the above post:

The pic's of the model stamp on the frame and stamping on the right heel of the frame. The last pic is why I'm thinking the stocks may not be original. They just don't fit like it seems they should.

- hutch

 

[Nightowl]

You found a real jewel. They did not make very many of those. The AF on the box indicates the adjustable front sight you have. It works for hunting and for PPC shooting where you can sight in for different distances and change the front sight to shoot those pre determined distances. The 6083 tells the date of manufacture. In this case the 83rd day of 1986, or about March 22nd, depending on if 86 was a leap year. If I added right, . The M in the triangle on the butt and the other marks are fitter's marks and have no meaning now. The recall mark "M" should be above the model and serial number in the yoke cut, when the modification is completed. Your has not been fixed. Most guns do not need it. The condition that started the recall manifasts itself when using hot .357 loads with 125 grain bullets. You can check by firing a box of 125 grain Remington .357 ammo through it. If it locks up, you might want to have it fixed if you plan to shoot magnums through it. Some folks do and some folks decide not to. Those stocks look contemporary for your gun, but it looks like they are made for an N frame, not an L frame. It is not unusual for stocks to not fit perfectly in that time frame, but those are way too far off for just a poor fit. I would not shoot it with those stocks. They will hurt your hand!!

Congratulations on a great find.

 

[JayHutch]

Thanks

Thanks night owl,

Glad to have found it. You think $525 was an OK deal? Odd, 2-3 years ago wheel guns were way less around here (Ohio). Now the prices are up there. Used 686's at $650-$700 Occasionally see one for $550-$600. Not often see a pre-ILS, and if you do they want more than new if in condition. I was surprised to see this one, particularly in this kind of shape/box, goodies, etc.

Not likely I'll need fire hot 125's. Probably will stick to 148 and 158's. If I stay away from the hot 125's I should be OK, right? I have a nice practically unfired 13-2 that I understand shouldn't have a steady diet of hot 125's either.

Sounds like the cylinder lock up you mention isn't damaging to the firearm? Must be the primer deforming?

Yeah, those stocks have me baffled. PERFECT condition with perfectly sharp date stamp of August 26, 1986, which would fit with the manufacture date you explained. I have another set bought on eBay accidentally for my new 686-6. I needed round butt and these are L frame square. They have a date stamp of July 1984 and they fit this frame EXACTLY the same way. Odd. Love the look of the old walnut on deep blued revolvers, but like shooting the rubber one's. Thanks again for responding. - hutch

 

[MarkDozier]

525 is good price. What part of OHIO? I grew up near Hamilton.

 

[Nightowl]

You got a great price on that one. The grip dates to several months later than your gun appears to be made. Don't know what to tell you on the fit. Is there a K anywhere on the grips, or an N?

The problem for some was that the primer flowed back into the firing pin hole and tied up the cylinder. The new bushing and smaller firing pin solved the problem. Many guns were refit and an M was stamped above the model number in the yoke cut.

 

[JayHutch]

You got a great price on that one. The grip dates to several months later than your gun appears to be made. Don't know what to tell you on the fit. Is there a K anywhere on the grips, or an N?

The problem for some was that the primer flowed back into the firing pin hole and tied up the cylinder. The new bushing and smaller firing pin solved the problem. Many guns were refit and an M was stamped above the model number in the yoke cut.

TX Nightowl. Nope no K or N stamped on the inside. You know I have another set of old Goncalo target cutouts for K or L frame and they fit EXACTLTY the same way. They are dated July 2, 1984. Odd. The date stamped on the grips is August 28, 1986, so that would be almost exactly 6 mo after manufacture date right? That might add up, since it takes 'em a while and the furniture is last to go on. But they are 1/16" off. You think I should go ahead and sand them flush and refinish? Its something I know how to do, very carefully of course. The only flaw in an otherwise beautiful beast.
- hutch

ps: I just tried some Pachmayr presentation grips I have on a model 13-2. They fit perfectly. Very strange that both of the old 1980's Goncalo Alve's are so proud at the top. Reminds me of how some new Marlin, er REMLIN buttstocks fit. ; - )

Just tried some Magma's that were original equip on the 13-2. Yep - they fit.

 

[Nightowl]

Stocks on your gun

Have you tried those on an N frame? A lot of stocks of that era do not fit well at the top of the frame there, but this is the only pair I have seen that are proud. The rest have not had enough material to properly fit at the top, showing frame metal where the stock should cover.

Don't know what to say, but those will be painful with Magnums. If they will not fit an N frame, you may as well try to fit them to your gun and refinish.

 

[shawn mccarver]

Morning gang,

Gun show find, I need some ID help.

I've been looking for a companion 586 for my current manufacture S&W 686-6. Found one yesterday @ a local gun show that met my price/quality expectations. In fact, it exceeded them. It's an early 586 (no dash), with adjustable target rear sights and 4 position adjustable front sights. I've read about, but never seen those front sights. They look factory. Price later in this report. I'm including some pic's since we all seem to like a little gun porn.

The questions I have are these:
1) I'm aware of the 586 no dash and 586-1 recall, but curious about the "M" stamp. I couldn't tell from my research exactly where the "M" stamp would be. I'm not terribly concerned about it even if this one hasn't had the factory mod. You'll see in photo #6 an "E" circled & "M" in triangle along with an assembly code (1st pic of 2nd post - only 5 photos at a time) Is that the "M" stamp I've heard reference? If not any comments on sending it in?
2) Please note the original box end (matching ser #): You will note the markings of how the revolver came from S&W. I'm wondering what of this pistol is, original equipment. It shows Product Code of 103526 and Spec Ord 6083. Does anyone know what Spec Ord 6083 would represent? It also shows Stock = TS and Features = AF. I think the TS means "target/speedloader"? I'm thinking the grips may not be original, since they don't fit quite right. They are also clearly marked August 28, 1986 which is probably too late for a 586 no dash right? The very last pic in post #2 shows why I think the stocks aren't original. They are perfect, like brand new, but proud at the top and not flush @ bottom of backstrap.
3) I see the Product Code listed in my SCSW (6" B TS AF 1986) but have always had trouble dating from serial number with my Smith's. Obviously I must not know how to use my SCSW. Seems product code suggests 1986. Don't know what the other codes represent (TS AF). This is ser # AJY6xxx. Can anyone ID a manufacture date from that number? I guess the 586 no dash was made from 1981 to 1986 when the -1 came out.
4) Last, the front sight is quite interesting and they certainly seem "factory". How do they work? 4 tiny allen screws top and recessed wheel below. Any way to know if what I have, & what you see, is how this beautiful revolver left the factory?

I have to say that the knowledgeable members of this forum have soooooo increased my enjoyment of S&W products, it's hard to describe. I guess all I can say is THANK YOU Smith & Wesson Forum, and THANK YOU in advance for any assistance members may have on this gun show find. I've been extremely lucky this spring summer & fall. GSF's of a perfect S&W M52-2 (OMG what a pistol), 95% M13-2 in blue and another 13-2 in nickel, 90% M539 & a beautiful old Marlin 1894C (.357 JM). No steal's, but all reasonably priced resulting in a heck of a lot of fun this summer!

Any assistance on this on this one is greatly appreciated.

- hutch

The M stamp would be in the yoke. The picture does not show that your revolver has the M stamp, thus no recall. It is important that you have the work done.

Special order is often the Julian date, in this case, the date of manufacture would be the 83rd day of 1986.

TS = Target Stock.

AF = Adjustable Front sight

Your stocks are clearly not for that revolver, and I wonder if they are from an N frame. I have never seen K frame stocks, even replacements that mismatched.

The adjustable front is quite a great piece of S&W factory engineering. It is specifically for PPC shooting and also can be used for any other sport in which different known distances need to be set ahead of time as you can set the correct elevation for four different distances, thus requiring just a roll of the adjustment wheel once the settings are made with the Allen screws. I suspect a Google search will reveal instructions for the use of the sight.

Nice revolver.

 

[nipster]

Regarding the grips, I have a 686-1 6" that has grips just like that. No washer, but the wood seems to be milled for the L frame butt.

These grips will not fit on a K frame

I thought all L and K frame grips were interchangable, but these are not. I have a 686-3 that does not have grips like that, they have the older style grips with washer, but are date stamped to fit with the manufacture date.

 

[JayHutch]

TX for the comments Shawn & nipster,

Shawn - I don't have a K frame to check them on. I do have another set of advertised L frame combat grips I bought that fit the exact same way. Strange. Maybe those were mislabeled too? Like nipster I always heard the grips were same for even the N, but these don't fit L or K. However, I took the magma's off my 13-2 (K frame) and they fit perfect, but of course aren't the same feel as the hunky target grips. For shooting I'll just put on the Pachy's off of my model 13-2. THEY fit perfectly too. Go figure. Odd.

- hutch

Guess I'll get out the wood file, sand paper and get to work eh? My 686 is a round butt, so I can't check 'em on that one. Anybody? Must be someone on S&W forum that knows if N frames are definitely 1/16" prouder at the top than L or K.

. . . just checked and NOPE - neither of these beautiful combat magnum grips sets fit properly on the 13-2 L frame either. So looks like I must have 2 sets of N frame combat grips. One set perfect, the other 98%. Woe is me.

 

[AveragEd]

Holy sandpaper, Batman -put that file away! What you have there definitely are N-frame stocks on an L-frame gun as evidenced by one of my 686s wearing a set of checkered targets for one of my 629s.

As you can see in this third photo, they also do not fit the front of the grip frame exactly but when both panels are installed, you can't tell that misfit exists.

If you have no need for those N-frame stocks, I'm sure someone will buy them from you if you post photos in an ad in the Classified section of this forum.

Ed

 

[bigmoose]

Great gun show score. That revolver is a beauty. Hold off on the sanding of the stocks. I bet there is a forum member out there who would trade you some L frame targets for those N frames.

Typically, the "M in triangle" stamp is used to denote that the gun has been magnafluxed. This is a procedure done during manufacture (towards the end) to inspect for cracks and fatigue in the metal before continuing down the assembly line. This stamp was used at Remington where I once worked, and I am guessing S&W used it also.

I bet that gun of yours is going to be a blast to shoot. Congrats.

 

[BUFF]

The firing pin and bushing/primer flow problem with the early L frames was not dependent on bullet weight. I had an early 4 inch 686 that locked up on some 158 grain factory loads while shooting Federal 125 grainers just fine. Not all guns locked up with anything you would try.

S&W will still do the update for free and pay for shipping both ways. I had most of mine done, the only one I never returned was not used for serious matters and largely shot with .38 Specials. Personally, I would have it done but if you are just shooting it for enjoyment and you don't experience the lockup, you may not feel that the risk of loss or damage during shipping, or marring the finish during a sloppy shop session (rare but happens) is worth the bother.

On the other hand, none of the early L frames ever locked up until they did!

The marks on the side of the grip frame are inspection and assembly markings that don't mean anything once the gun is assembled at the factory and test fired.

You found a nice one.

 

[JayHutch]

The M stamp would be in the yoke. The picture does not show that your revolver has the M stamp, thus no recall. It is important that you have the work done.

Special order is often the Julian date, in this case, the date of manufacture would be the 83rd day of 1986.

TS = Target Stock.

AF = Adjustable Front sight

Your stocks are clearly not for that revolver, and I wonder if they are from an N frame. I have never seen K frame stocks, even replacements that mismatched.

The adjustable front is quite a great piece of S&W factory engineering. It is specifically for PPC shooting and also can be used for any other sport in which different known distances need to be set ahead of time as you can set the correct elevation for four different distances, thus requiring just a roll of the adjustment wheel once the settings are made with the Allen screws. I suspect a Google search will reveal instructions for the use of the sight.

Nice revolver.

Holy sandpaper, Batman -put that file away! What you have there definitely are N-frame stocks on an L-frame gun as evidenced by one of my 686s wearing a set of checkered targets for one of my 629s.

As you can see in this third photo, they also do not fit the front of the grip frame exactly but when both panels are installed, you can't tell that misfit exists.

If you have no need for those N-frame stocks, I'm sure someone will buy them from you if you post photos in an ad in the Classified section of this forum.

Ed

10-4 Robin - I hear you loud & clear. TX for the valuable input. I do believe you are correct. What you show in your pic's is EXACTLY what mine are like. I'm hoping out a trade with someone who might have an extra set of goodK/L frame combat goncalo's for one of these set's of N's I don't need. Both are old. One perfect (I'll keep those). The other one's aren't perfect, but not bad. - hutch

 

[JayHutch]

Thanks Buff - good information. Winter is coming to Ohio all too soon, so maybe a good time to send it back. Do you know how I go about doing that? Never sent anything to S&W. - hutch

 

[BUFF]

Call their customer service department at 1-800-781-8300. Tell them you want them to do the early L frame firing pin and bushing upgrade to prevent cylinder lockup and ask for a paid return shipping label. Have your serial number ready.

Sometimes, the person you speak to doesn't know about it and/or will tell you that you don't need to have it done. Ask for their name, thank them for their time and hang up. Then call back and hope you get someone else who knows what's up.