New gun purchasing

[vector16]

This may be a wierd concern or question to some but it does kind of annoy the heck out of me. I'll start with a gun I purchased about a year ago. I went down top the gun shop to purchase a used firearm. It just so happened to be a LLama *.*.*. 45 IXA. I was told it was a 1911. this would be my first "1911". At the time I knew nada about the 1911 and I just knew the Colt was $1200 and this one was $400, so I got it. Problem after problem, the company that made them was no longer in biz. which I was not told. I was told this was a standard 1911 which it was not and so on.
My concern now or question i have is when I go to purchase a new gun, I want to see the inner workings of the gun, the mechanics, if you will. I want to know how the gun is put together before I invest $500, $1000 or whatever the case may be. I always ask if i can take it apart and see the inner workings of the gun i am interested in befor i buy it. I am always told "NO". I want to know how difficult it is to take apart and reassemble. I ask the sales rep to do it also and again am denied my request. I would think if the shops really wanted to make a sale and earn that commission they would allow you to do this, Don't you?
So this is also a question for Smith and Wesson as a company that believes in their product and all the others out there as well. Why doesn't the manuf'r send a "sample gun" to the shops with their orders so the customer can fully examine the gun before purchase. We all read the specs on the guns we want to buy, weight - full and empty, trigger pull, reviews, etc.. I am sure they could send one that has been modified with the barrel sealed or the mag instert not functional to let us really work it over before we buy.
What do you guys think?

 

[Kanewpadle]

A sample gun would cost a lot of money for either the manufacturer or gun shop. They would never do it.

If a gun salesman won't take the time to show you how to disassemble a gun, don't buy from him. Having said that, there are some guns I would not take apart for a customer.

There is much to learn when buying new or used. Be an informed buyer. Google, Youtube, and the S&W Forum can be your friends. Just ask.

 

[feralmerril]

If you had a NIB from the factory $1,200 colt saa or 1911 in your store would you take a chance on marring the screws etc because a potential customer wants to see the guts? I seriously doubt it! Thats what the factory guarantee is for if it fails. How about asking a cadillac salesman you want to look inside the engine?

 

[Fishslayer]

When I buy a new gun, I've done my research & know as much as I can.

Used guns can be a crapshoot. There are a number of places with "How to check out a used revolver."

Buying guns is kind of different from anything else. Imagine if you had a brand new Ford with "issues" & had to deal with the factory for warranty work...

 

[blujax01]

Enter the Smart Phone ...

Although it is always a good idea to do research before buying, sometimes you don't have time to go back home and do your thing. I have to say, since I got my iPhone this is no longer a problem. I step outside and Google reviews, go to Gunbroker for price comparisons, etc.
Handy gadget I thought I'd never have a use for.

And it plays "Angry Birds"!

 

[DeadAye]

There may be a reason (really good ones, btw) that the Colt goes for $1,200 and the Llama was $400.

P.S. The Llama may be a 1911 type, but it isn't a 1911...

Ya want a good, cheap 1911? Look at RIA (Rock Island Armory or Armscor).

 

[CBus660R]

There's a big difference between field stripping and complete dis-assembly. A shop should let you field strip, or do it for you, but I don't see a complete dis-assembly being a viable option. That'd be similar to going to a car dealership and asking them to pull the engine out so you can check ring end gaps, etc... When it comes to the internal workings, you have to trust the manufacturer put it together properly. And if you're buying used at 1/3 of the price of a similar new model, then you have to remember the old "buyer be ware" saying. To the OP, chalk this purchase up to part of your education about learning more about the wonderful world of guns.

 

[Rule3]

You also need to change the title of your thread. It may be "new" to you but you bought a used gun.

Based on you post, even if the sales person had field striped the gun, would that have told you anything?? Likely no.

Do your homework first, then buy. There are way too many good guns out there.

 

[diamonback68]

Based on you post, even if the sales person had field striped the gun, would that have told you anything?? Likely no.

Good point!
If you were buying a new car would you ask the car salesman to take the car apart so you could inspect it? But, say he did, would you know what you were looking at? How about a toaster, coffee pot, TV set?
If you haven't done your research beforehand it would be the same thing with a gun. Makes no sense to make such a silly request.

 

[Fishslayer]

Ya want a good, cheap 1911? Look at RIA (Rock Island Armory or Armscor).

^^^ This. And as I understand it their parts are mostly interchangeable with "genuine" (.gov type) 1911's.

 

[perrazi]

gun shops love uninformed buyers. in this day and age, there isn't any excuse for not knowing what you are buying. even is it is in the camel family.

 

[OKFC05]

What do you guys think?

NEW? I don't think so.
I think it is a common mistake to buy a gun based on assumptions, and then do the research AFTER taking it home.

I saw a group of Llamas being pushed at low prices, and asked my gunsmith about them. He said, "Llama got cheap and sloppy toward the end. I can make one work for about $150, but it still won't be like the old ones." Enough said. Don't want one.

I have a friend who has money and hangs on to it tightly. He wanted to buy a gun and asked me about a cheap used one a co-worker is selling. I said, "You bought a clean used 2 year old Buick with low miles. Why didn't you buy an old Yugo, it's cheaper?" He caught on right away.

 

[Double-O-Dave]

I was at a gun show once and stopped to look at a S&W revolver at one of the tables. The seller was a older gentleman, and I asked if I could take a look at the Model -- he was selling. He looked at me pretty hard for a minute, and the conversation went something like this:

S: "Are you a gunsmith?"
Me: "No sir"
S: "Are you a lawman?"
Me: "No sir"
S: "Do you know anything at all about revolvers?"
Me: "A bit"
S: "Then you don't want this one"

I took his word on it and moved on.

Regards,

Dave

 

[airman]

Look in the 1911 forums. Part are interchangeable - mostly, some with little fitting, some with more. the best fitting will be from the manufacturer.

 

[venomballistics]

Good point!
If you were buying a new car would you ask the car salesman to take the car apart so you could inspect it? But, say he did, would you know what you were looking at? How about a toaster, coffee pot, TV set?
If you haven't done your research beforehand it would be the same thing with a gun. Makes no sense to make such a silly request.

yes
yes
and yes
but thats just me. most do not really know where aluminum becomes superior to steel and steel more appropriate than aluminum in given roles. even with this knowledge its rare to accurately identify a specific grade like 10 series mild steels or 4140 gun steel.
Honestly its easier to look inside electronics and determine quality. knowing the brand stamps can tell you if they cut corners and even basic knowledge of electronics can also tell you a lot by what methods are used to gain a result.
in any case its just not common knowledge

 

[johnsonl]

I drive Fords. I know nothing about Ferraris, except that they're neat to look at. If you are new to handguns, do your homework. Go to a range, rent different handguns and shoot them until you find one you prefer. Take some courses if the range offers them. Talk to people you know and trust who are shooters. While you're doing all of this, you're gaining knowledge and experience. Take an experienced shooter with you for your purchase. Those of us who have been doing this for a while know that your shooting interests/focus will change over time. Enjoy your new hobby and be safe!

 

[feralmerril]

I must be lucky. I have owned somewhere around several hundred guns, the vast majority used. I can not remember buying one that was defective and had to be sent back to the factory or taken to a gunsmith. I have used gunsmiths to customise guns. This morning I bumped into a close friend downtown. He told me he had just returned a new shotgun for the dealer to send back for work. Sounds like the shotgun was shooting very low. He also told of sending a savage .243 back lately as with the scope adjustments cranked over to the limit the gun was still shooting like 6 inchs to far out. He is no novice and shoots a lot.

 

[vector16]

Let me clarify

Sorry to get everyones panties in a bunch. I meant, as CBus660R said "field strip" not a complete take down. Just to see if it would very complicated or not. The LLama was just an exteem example.
Take another example:
I really like my Sigma .40. I can take it down and put it back together in minutes if I really take my time. The sales guy at Turner's did it for me without me even really asking. One of his sales pitches was how easy it was to breakdown and clean.
When I was shopping for a gun for my wife, she has really bad arthritis, she wanted a gun like mine. Unfortunately it was almost impossible for her to field strip the gun. We wanted something for her of good quality because she probably will not ever buy another one. We were asking about Field stripping the pistols we were looking at to see if she were able to do it and were always told "no". We went to BPS and were looking up there and the sales manager was nice about it and let her see if she could take down a Firestorm .380. Moving the takedown lever proved to be a little much and suggested a revolver. She had no problem opening it so she could not only load it but clean it aswell. we started looking at rev's and finally settled on a GP100 .357.
Does that clear anthing up for you guys? I would just like to see what is involved with the field stripping part not a full take down. Hope this clears the air.

 

[feralmerril]

Sounds good to me. Turners still there, huh? I remember that place. Take a number like it was a meat market!

 

[diamonback68]

Vector16, that makes it a little clearer, but how do you field strip a revolver without taking a screwdriver to it? I don't think any store or dealer is going to let a customer do that. We are all into revolvers here. Your thoughts?