"NEW GUN" Rolling / Falling Block Rifle

[Babalooie]

I just took possession of a .22 L /5.4MM rifle. It looks like a rolling block, but it was sold as a Falling Block. There's no Manufacturer's name, only what appear to be proof marks.

I'm posting photos of the marks, which are:

1. A five pointed star within a circle with a large "G" beneath.

2. A five pointed star within a circle with a large "B" beneath.

3. A Regal Crown with a "U" beneath.

Was told it is a German antique.

Can anyone identify this gun or these marks?

 

[Muley Gil]

Can you post pictures of the action-open, partially open, and closed?

I'm guessing a Belgium made Flobert.

 

[deadin]

Those all look like German proofs to me.

 

[Cyrano]

Those are German BUG commercial proofs, and those things over the letters are crowns. I can't identify the gun, but if the breech is only held closed by the tension on the hammer, it's probably a Flobert.

 

[Babalooie]

What do the letters BUG stand for?

I'll try to get photos of the action / breech.

 

[deadin]

What do the letters BUG stand for?

Crown over B, Crown over U and Crown over G. These three proofs seem to always come on German commercial guns.
They're just called "BUG" proofs as a form of shorthand.

"B" is a German proof using Mauser M-71 powder. ca 1891
"U" is a German definitive proof 1891-1939
"G" is a German rifle proof 1891-1939

 

[Babalooie]

Crown over B, Crown over U and Crown over G. These three proofs seem to always come on German commercial guns.
They're just called "BUG" proofs as a form of shorthand.

"B" is a German proof using Mauser M-71 powder. ca 1891
"U" is a German definitive proof 1891-1939
"G" is a German rifle proof 1891-1939

Thanks. I've seen the term before but didn't know what it meant.

 

[Babalooie]

RIGHT SIDE OF ACTION

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

BREECH CLOSED


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

BREECH OPEN

 

[deadin]

I can't quite tell from the pictures.... Does the hammer "roll" under the breech block as it falls thereby locking it?
Or can you thumb back the hammer and breech block at the same time?

 

[Babalooie]

I can't quite tell from the pictures.... Does the hammer "roll" under the breech block as it falls thereby locking it?
Or can you thumb back the hammer and breech block at the same time?

The hammer rolls under the breech block.

Can't thumb back the hammer and breech block at the same time.

 

[Babalooie]

 

[deadin]

OK! Not a Flobert, but some form of a rolling block. (Cute and simple.)

 

[2152hq]

That's a nice little rifle.
Quite different from the many poor quality, condition guns more often seen.

Crown/B shows the final proof fireing was done with the gun in the finished state.

The Crown/U is that final proof signification as already stated.

If there is ever a Crown/B showing,,there should be a Crown/U with it to be a complete correct proof mark..

 

[Babalooie]

That's a nice little rifle.
Quite different from the many poor quality, condition guns more often seen.

Considering the condition of this gun, I'm surprised it's as old as it is.

It's going to drive me nuts trying to determine who made it.

 

[Babalooie]

So, it IS a rolling block.

 

[2152hq]

Alot of the old catalogs from the European distributors & dealers from before & between the Wars often called these rifles/actions a 'Flobert' also even though they do have a mechanical locking system.

This type with the hammer locking in under the rear of the block was often listed as a 'System Remington' ,,a reference to the Remington Rolling Block style lock-up. There are different variations & shapes but all seemed to have been lumped into the 'Remington' catagory in the old catalogs.

(The other common locking sysyem was the Warnant System(sp?). The breech block swings up and forward after unlatching it usually with a small side mounted button or bar. Sometimes called a Trapdoor Flobert.)

The fireing pin looks a touch too long and has turned up a small burr on the extractor from some dry firing.
Stone/scrape that burr off and either avoid dry firing or shorten the pin so it doesn't hit the chamber recess when fully forward.

Should make a fun shooter with some of those 22 CB Longs.

Did you get this one from Simpsons?,,they have a number of Flobert type rifles in stock most times. Several different types usually.
Nice people to deal with too.

I had a beauty in 22Short 25 years ago. French walnut stock, DST, fancy triggerguard w/ carved horn grip, target sights, etc. Couldn't give it away back then.

 

[GyMac]

Alot of the old catalogs from the European distributors & dealers from before & between the Wars often called these rifles/actions a 'Flobert' also even though they do have a mechanical locking system.

This type with the hammer locking in under the rear of the block was often listed as a 'System Remington' ,,a reference to the Remington Rolling Block style lock-up. There are different variations & shapes but all seemed to have been lumped into the 'Remington' catagory in the old catalogs.

(The other common locking sysyem was the Warnant System(sp?). The breech block swings up and forward after unlatching it usually with a small side mounted button or bar. Sometimes called a Trapdoor Flobert.)

The fireing pin looks a touch too long and has turned up a small burr on the extractor from some dry firing.
Stone/scrape that burr off and either avoid dry firing or shorten the pin so it doesn't hit the chamber recess when fully forward.

Should make a fun shooter with some of those 22 CB Longs.

Did you get this one from Simpsons?,,they have a number of Flobert type rifles in stock most times. Several different types usually.
Nice people to deal with too.

I had a beauty in 22Short 25 years ago. French walnut stock, DST, fancy triggerguard w/ carved horn grip, target sights, etc. Couldn't give it away back then.

Very interesting. Where did you acquire all of your knowledge on seemingly obscure European sporting rifles?
Chris

 

[2152hq]

I started out repairing (then later customizing/building guns/restoring) when I was 12 or 13. Anything I could get my hands on was fair game to be taken apart, fixed if needed,ect. That was 50 years ago.

I read everything I could then (& still do now), learned everything I could from any source, worked for and did work for alot of different shops and companys. I got to see, repair & restore alot of everything from Floberts to Purdeys to Parkers. European or US,,doesn't matter. They all interest me in one way or another.
I admit I kind of stop at around 1960 vintage when looking at guns though. The earlier the better for my interests.

Lately though it gets tougher to try and recall some of the info. I was never great at writing much down. Shuffling through old books, a few notes, old catalogs and other references can kickstart the mind sometimes though. The net is a great source, but you have to know what direction to go in for your search and be able to sift through what may be erroneous info at the same time..

 

[jrm53]

I can state that its not shown in the "Single shot rifles and actions" by Frank de Haas and I always thought his book showed every thing. Jeff

 

[GyMac]

I started out repairing (then later customizing/building guns/restoring) when I was 12 or 13. Anything I could get my hands on was fair game to be taken apart, fixed if needed,ect. That was 50 years ago.

I read everything I could then (& still do now), learned everything I could from any source, worked for and did work for alot of different shops and companys. I got to see, repair & restore alot of everything from Floberts to Purdeys to Parkers. European or US,,doesn't matter. They all interest me in one way or another.
I admit I kind of stop at around 1960 vintage when looking at guns though. The earlier the better for my interests.

Lately though it gets tougher to try and recall some of the info. I was never great at writing much down. Shuffling through old books, a few notes, old catalogs and other references can kickstart the mind sometimes though. The net is a great source, but you have to know what direction to go in for your search and be able to sift through what may be erroneous info at the same time..

How great to be able to work in an area that you are truly interested in! Firearms are a fascinating field, but I'm afraid that my interests too, pretty much end about 1960. That's not to say that I don't value newer firearms, but they don't appeal to me as much.