New Model 3 Target in 32 S&W R - UPDATE - Letters as 320 RR

[Boulder350]

Picked up this well worn new model 3 target revolver. It has an early 2 digit serial number. It actually chambers the 32 revolving rifle cartridge. Still has the original rear non adjustable target sight that has the same serial number as the frame. Think I will send in for a letter on this one.

 

[Jim Watson]

That's just neat.
I bet it weighs a ton, my .38-44 Target was heavy and not as comfortably balanced as a .44.

 

[BMur]

.320 Revolving Rifle

Wow,
A couple of members were recently talking about the 32/44 Target possibly being chambered for the .320 Revolving rifle round. Looks like you found at least a 32 cal example? I never thought about a low serial number being a candidate for this chambering? But it does make sense since the Revolving rifle pre-dates the 32/44.

Yeah, I’d say a letter is a must have on this one. I recommend you mention to Mr Jinks that the chambers are bored straight through unlike the 32/44. Thanks kindly for posting. I hope it letters as a .320 cartridge! That would be super rare!

Actually, it could be another caliber though. Did you mic the chambers? Since it doesn’t have target sights? It could be a standard 32 S&W. If it was though, it probably would not chamber the .320 Revolving rifle case? So this is a rare bird for sure!

Murph

 

[Boulder350]

It has a rear target sight. The front looks like is changed. The early rear target sight were fixed on this model. It has that with the serial number that matches the frame. Barrel serial number matches the frame too.

 

[mmaher94087]

I'm the doubting type and I hope I'm proven wrong but I believe the cylinder has been modified. I think I'm seeing remnants of the .32-44 ring (case stop) in the cylinder bores. Also, the extractor has been replaced incorrectly which makes me suspicious. All said, it's a neat revolver and I hope it is a .320 RR chambering as I have never seen one outside of the rifle.

 

[BMur]

Additional Photos?

Can we see a good photo of some of the chambers and also the face of the cylinder with it removed from the barrel assembly?

Thanks

Murph

 

[Boulder350]

I agree the odds are pretty low thats its originally in 320 RR but here is an article that gives me hope. Its a review written in 1887. Have never seen one originally chambered in 320 RR or one converted to 320 RR.

How can you tell the extractor is installed incorrectly? I'm in the process of giving it a good clean. Might be able to tell better then if the chambers have been altered.

 

[mmaher94087]

Mark, the photo showing the head of the .320 R cartridge also shows a punch-dot on the extractor leg just below the cartridge. That punch-dot should align with the serial number. The extractor is clocked one charge hole off which indicates that the extractor has been out of the cylinder.

 

[glowe]

Without a factory letter it is just a bunch of guesses. My guess would be a 32 S&W step in the chamber or just powder burn ring from shooting the short cartridge. Which is rarer, 32S&W or 320 RR. If there was ever a S&W that needs a letter it is a two digit NM3 in 32 S&W!! Since Roy states that this model was available in many calibers, including 32 S&W and 320 RR, that would be good enough for me to know that both were made. How many is the question, but maybe this is one of the few.

 

[Oyeboteb]

Post us some close ups of the Rear Sight?

 

[Oyeboteb]

That's just neat.
I bet it weighs a ton, my .38-44 Target was heavy and not as comfortably balanced as a .44.

My .32 - 44 weighs 1281 Grams, or, 2.824 Pounds.

My .38 -44 weighs 1187 Grams, or, 2.616 Pounds.

My NM3 .44 Russian Target, 1089 Grams, or 2.400 Pounds

The .32 - 44 for sure is a weighty one!

 

[Boulder350]

For now these are the best pictures I have of the rear sight.

 

[Oyeboteb]

For now these are the best pictures I have of the rear sight.

Okeydoke!...interesting it has no usual Screws to adjust the Blade...

Say, can you run a Bronze Bore Brush with some Hot Soapy Water an or other Cleaning media through those Cylinder Chambers, and then post us a fresh picture looking in to them?

Images so far kind of look a little like someone may have re-Chambered this from the Stepped-Chamber-to-bore of the .32 - 44, via reaming the Cylinder Bore and eliminating the 'Step' so they could use the .32 RR Cartridges.

It'd be nice to have some better images and with the Chambers well cleaned to see better.

 

[Oyeboteb]

That two digit serial number beginning in "1" is so cute!!

And in keeping with internet tradition of x-ing out the last digit, leaves just the "1"...just put a big smile on my face anyway, so cool.!!!

 

[BMur]

Simple Solution

I recommend a simple solution to determine the original caliber?

Simply, mic the bore.

See photo's below. The .32 Smith & Wesson is .312 bullet diameter. It never changed from its origin in 1878. The bullet design changed from original outside lubrication to inside lubrication in 1887 and several types of bullets after the turn of the century? but the "diameter" remained the same.

The .32-44 Target is listed as .321 diameter inside lubrication. That's a "HUGE" difference. One thing is for certain. If this New Model 3 with early target rear sight was and is an original .32 Smith and Wesson? The bore "will" mic at .312 Groove diameter! NO Question!

If it's an original .32-44 or perhaps the ultra rare .320 Revolving rifle caliber? It "will" mic at .321.

NO Guessing.

At least this way we can eliminate the .32 S&W without the factory letter "OR" confirm it actually is a .32 S&W caliber which would be a great find indeed!

Murph

 

[Boulder350]

Cleaned up the revolver cylinder and took a few more pictures. It looks to me like it is modified from the 32-44 to fire the 320 RR cartridge a long time ago. The corrosion looks like it was fired a lot with the 32-44 cartridge after the modification too. Have not seen one modified like this before.

Sent away for a letter in May to see where it went and what the original configuration was. Hope to get the letter soon.

 

[Wyatt Burp]

That's just neat.
I bet it weighs a ton, my .38-44 Target was heavy and not as comfortably balanced as a .44.

That New Model #3 Target Model converted to .22 I post here all the time feels bizarrely light compared to what I expected. But I haven’t owned a .44 Russian for a long time to remember how it would compare.

 

[BMur]

Bored straight through

Mark,
It seems to me that you could use the 32-20 rifle case and both size & trim the case to the end of the cylinder throat. Then load the .323 bullet to any depth desired. Should be very accurate using that loading technique. In fact likely more accurate since you could get more black powder into the longer case.

Murph

 

[Oyeboteb]

Mark,
It seems to me that you could use the 32-20 rifle case and both size & trim the case to the end of the cylinder throat. Then load the .323 bullet to any depth desired. Should be very accurate using that loading technique. In fact likely more accurate since you could get more black powder into the longer case.

Murph

Hi Murph!

No, that would be a mess..!

Since his Cylinder Chambers are now "Bored Straight Through", unless he wants a big mess, he needs for the Cartridge Case to be like the .320 RR, and to be the full length of the Cylinder.

Otherwise, if using a shorter Cartridge Case, he will have a really nasty unsupported Bullet "jump" and massive Blow-By, leading, and terrible accuracy.

.32-20 Case is too short to begin with for this application, of what is in effect, same as the .320 RR Cylinder chambering.

.32-20 Brass can be shortened, expanded, and made to serve for the .32 - 44 Cartridge, but not for the longer .320 RR.

 

[BMur]

Case length?

Hi Phil,
I'm wiping the egg of my shirt right now....


Actually, I would agree with you "if" the cylinder had not been drilled out? Because the cylinder chambers were drilled out? and I strongly suspect they were done by a non professional so that basically means that they are not "True" round. So basically applying a case length to the end of the chamber wouldn't have much positive impact in my opinion. Blow by as you mentioned would be inevitable no matter what you do here.

In fact, running the case to the end of the chamber would likely make them very hard to extract. The cases would expand like a lollie pop when fired. Sort of like the end of a blunderbust? Gross case expansion is the result of a chamber that is NOT bored out correctly.

My suggestion of just using the 32-20 case I stand by since it would function well and not impact the area the chambers were drilled out.

I also believe the gun would pattern shoot at a respectable distance and it would not be difficult to manufacture and "safely" use this type of case arrangement. Nor would it be costly. Plus it would be fun to shoot!

Any other arrangement would likely be not only costly? but would basically get stuck in the chambers and function poorly.

On a bad day you might even break the cam trying to extract the ballooned out shells? Ahh, NOW that would be a bad thing!! Maybe even a "BIGGER MESS"? Egg back at you Phil.


Murph