new reloader, my snubnose load. What do you think?

[dan-g]

Hi Everyone,
im new to the forums and new to reloading. I would love some feedback from some experianced members about my new loader and load.

I picked up a lee 1,000 progresive from midway to suplement my lee clasic. ive only made about 400rounds so far with 95% comming in at the right finnished weight (I weigh all round on my rcbs digital before they head out to the range). The improper weight rounds get sent to the Pull box, where Ill deal with them when I fell like beating somthing (love that impact bullet puller) Anyways, Im getting the hang of it. I dont really trust the Lee powder disks Ive noticed there up or more often down a grain, so I pull out every couple of rounds and weigh them on the digital. So heres the rundown for my snubnose plinker round, these rounds are fed through 1 7/8 357 smiths one 327pc and one M&P 340 I will also put them through my 327 trr8 but thats not really as fun.


38357 125grain RNFP friendswoods bullets :.38357 125grain RNFP
CCI 500 primers, 5.8-5.7 grn Unique (the lee disks arent that acurate)
Brass is a missmash of one's fired 38s that I run through my frankford arsenal tubler.
This round feels like factory 38 plus p rounds.

If anyone has any feedback I would apreciate it. My speer manual and my lyman 48th certainly dont agree. Also this bullet type isnt really covered. Im really going for a plus p 38 load I can pratice with consistently that emulates a 357 (my range has a magnum restiction for noise reasons). I would really apreciate it if you could help me dial in the Unique that would be really helpfull because I have 8lbs of it. (I know bullseye might be better for this aplication but I only have Unique and 2400. I bought in bulk and Im not able to pick up more powder at this time).

Thanks for any advise

Dan

 

[festus1]

When you weigh the rounds, what do you mean? I hope you aren't weighing the finished rounds. The POWDER CHARGE only is what is weighed. Bullets and brass vary in weight from piece to piece. What is the cartridge overall length? That looks like a lead bullet? Please post those answers.

 

[Bruce51]

Your load is a good one that is listed in several manuals. There has been much stiffer loadings listed in the past. What you have is a good .38 load for general plinking.
As far as weighing finished rounds this will not really tell you much. The variation in bullet and case weights will always trump a powder charge error.
There is a theory that most kabooms are caused by double charged cases
loaded on progressive presses. You won't be able to find that error by weighing loaded rounds. It doesn't hurt to weigh them but a slighty heavier bullet with a slightly heavier case is always going to make you think you have an overload.
Just be sure to follow proper protocol and not get distracted while reloading. Btw Unique does not meter real well so some variation will occur in the charge weight.
Be careful and have fun as reloading is an excellent hobby.

Bruce

 

[Rule3]

Unfortunately the Unique powder does not meter well through the Lee discs. It is like Blue Dot which also does not meter well due to the texture of the powder but it should not vary by as much as a grain?? The initial weight may be off so you might have to move to the next larger hole or even two.

Are you using a Lee Pro Auto Disk Powder Measure?
If so it needs to be conditioned or "broken in" by running a full hopper full of powder through it to coat the inside.

This will help it dropping the correct weight or volume of powder. Don't go by what the chart says it should drop. Every powder is different and each batch is different. Some are right on what the chart says others are way off. You need to weigh the powder being dropped not after you seat the bullet.

I use the same powder measure on a turret press. Fine powder like Bullseye is almost exactly what the volume chart says. HP 38, Unique, Blue Dot etc are different so I need to use the next bigger hole.

Run some more powder through the hopper then just experiment with the different discs, weigh the amount on a good scale until you find the correct one. Write it down.

Edit: If you have the Lee Manual (you should) it's worth the few dollars. Read the part on powder VDM and how it can vary by batch, temp, humidity etc. Plus it has a condensed version of just about every load from other sources in the back of the book,

 

[dan-g]

Thanks for the post that is what I was looking to hear. I especialy apreciate your feedback about distractions and knowing my load isnt out of line.

As far as the questions go; I weigh the powder every 20th or so round. In the begining I weighed every charge. I havent run a entire hoper of powder through my press yet so hopfully my numbers will even out. those bullets are lead. OCD1 I found out what your saying right off; lee's powder disk scale manual was completly off I ended up with a much larger disk set than stated (I do have two scales and I calibrated them so im pretty sure of my final charge weight).

I do weigh every finnished round to catch double charges and squibs and It "SEEMS to" works for me. My bullets and brass are very consistent weights so I just pull everthing thats not 200grns total. Ive pulled 15rounds from the 400 so far I dont really know if they were bad or not but Im just anal retentive. They were all underweight by as much as 5.6 grains so Im assuming they were all possible squibs. I did pull one apart and it was empty of powder (Im assuming it was because I was messin with the feed sequence by rotating the plate carrier back and forth dialing evething in and deactivating the round sensor for the powder hopper).

This round does feel hoter than my corbon .38 plus p 120grn but milder than my midrange 158 SJHP 357. My speer manual seems to indicate I could spice it up to 6.0 grains. What would your take on this be?

PS: I have fired these rounds off and no hard extraction or pressure sighns are present.

Thanks again

DAN

 

[Hammerdown77]

In my experience some of the rows of charge weights for Alliant powders are way off in the Lee chart. Unique and 2400 are two I've found, and Blue Dot is another people have mentioned. Bullseye and Power Pistol are right on, though.

For Unique, the row for Green Dot is pretty darn close, within a tenth of a grain or so in my testing with my powder lots. You can use that row to get you in the ballpark, but you still need to verify with a scale.

.1 grain variation is normal and typical of all powder measures. Unless you are loading match rifle ammo, it doesn't matter. Load data takes that into account in most cases, that is, if a manufacturer has a minimum load listed and you throw a tenth or two below it, you're not going to get a squib.

The Lee Auto Disk works best after it's had a hopper of powder through it, as the graphite from the powder slicks up the internal pathways and eliminates any of the static bind you might get from the plastic components. I always drop 5-10 charges after changing to a new disk cavity before I weigh the charge, just to make sure the disk is completely filled and has a little graphite deposited on the cavity walls.

It's hard to get a squib with Unique, unless you have a completely empty case.

 

[Rule3]

It is not so much that the Lee Chart is "off" it's what they got with the particular lot or average at the time they measured it.

On my load data labels (tape) I put on my loaded rounds I put the disc number I use to equal whatever grains. Then I do not have to search for the correct disc again.

My weight of Unique will be different than yours due to different lot numbers, humidity, temp or phase of the Moon

Like pro Chefs, they weigh flour and do not measure it as it varies, mainly with humidity.

This does not sound good!
Empty or off by 5.6 grains???

Slow down and check why this is happening, bad things happen quickly, good things are slower.

"They were all underweight by as much as 5.6 grains so Im assuming they were all possible squibs. I did pull one apart and it was empty of powder "

 

[dan-g]

I should have explained the under weight rounds better. with the lee1000 I was rotating the cases to inspect cases/reseat primers etc... and in the proccess the case sensor got enganged. So the powder die wasnt droping any powder. I figured out that I shoud just fix any high primers by running the finnished rounds through my lee clasic as the progressive needs all three stations to have cases in them for it to function. Hopfully that makes sense.

What do you think about 6 grains of unique my speer manual has that listed as max. (its not the speer #8, its thier brand new manual)

 

[Rule3]

I should have explained the under weight rounds better. with the lee1000 I was rotating the cases to inspect cases/reseat primers etc... and in the proccess the case sensor got enganged. So the powder die wasnt droping any powder. I figured out that I shoud just fix any high primers by running the finnished rounds through my lee clasic as the progressive needs all three stations to have cases in them for it to function. Hopfully that makes sense.

What do you think about 6 grains of unique my speer manual has that listed as max. (its not the speer #8, its thier brand new manual)

I think you better go back and look at you manual again if it is Speer #14.

There is no data for a 125 gr LEAD RN bullet.

Under the +P loads there is for the 125 gr Gold Dot or FMJ listing 6.0 gr Unique as a max.

Totally different bullet and therefore would be a different charge!

 

[dan-g]

I meant My lymann. im sorry I only have two manuals and I got them mixed up, I reread it and 5.8 is plus p for 125 grn RNFP. Im wondering if anyone has experiance putting it up to 6.0 alliants website lists 125 rnfp and 6 grain unique as ther cowboy load. I might have forgot to mention these are hard cast bullets you cant scratch the lead. My impresion was the hard cast are desighned to be pushed faster, is this correct?

 

[Rule3]

What Lyman manual do you have?? Lyman #49 does not ave a 125 gr LEAD bullet.

I see a 125gr lead on the Alliant Website Cowboy loads with the load you are talking about with the Meister bullet.

The Alliant is a Max load. As it seems you are having some difficulty with your powder measure, I would not recommend you start at a Max load. Always start low and work up.

Reduce the load by 10%, weigh your powder to be sure your measure is working correctly. There is no need to start with Max loads especially if you are shooting a snub.

Get used to your equipment, make sure the powder drop is EXACT. go slow and be safe.

Load 10 rounds and try them. Breaking bullets apart is not really fun.

 

[dan-g]

I have the lymann #48 I got a package deal with the lee classic,auto powder measure and tumbler from a forum member on bladeforums. Thanks for the advise im not going to jump to 6 grains right away I will work my way up and see if my auto disk system evens out. I also bought the double disk stacker and the micro disk to see if I can get consistency. Im not going to jump to anthing im very carefull.

I should explain a little backround; I try to shoot the hottest rounds possible as quickly and acuratly as possible. That the way I was trained at the sheriff department 14 years ago and thats the way I train to this day, (intresting note the department used a case of model 19's or 66's that had been around since the 1970). Im getting into realoading so I can afford to shoot as much as possible and I try to shoot my carry pieces with carry ammo. I carry speer 125 grn 357 and would like the hottest 38special round possible for training purposes.

Thanks for you responses

Dan

 

[Engineer1911]

As a proud FORMER owner of a Lee disk powder measure, I can assure you that consistent discharges aren't going to happen with any powder in that measure. I used about 6 different powders, a range of charges, and dispensed 25 to 30 pounds of powder. The variation was +/- 0.2 grains at best.

I threw 10 charges and used the average value. 54.8 grains total = 5.5 grains average for that charge. I loaded 10 rounds using the same powder, brand of brass, lot of bullets and noticed a variation in recoil and velocity through a chronograph. Perfection isn't going to happen with Lee disk measures.

You can keep weighing or you can go shoot some ammo. Be safe.

 

[GypsmJim]

As a proud FORMER owner of a Lee disk powder measure, I can assure you that consistent discharges aren't going to happen with any powder in that measure. I used about 6 different powders, a range of charges, and dispensed 25 to 30 pounds of powder. The variation was +/- 0.2 grains at best.

I threw 10 charges and used the average value. 54.8 grains total = 5.5 grains average for that charge. I loaded 10 rounds using the same powder, brand of brass, lot of bullets and noticed a variation in recoil and velocity through a chronograph. Perfection isn't going to happen with Lee disk measures.

You can keep weighing or you can go shoot some ammo. Be safe.

All this talk about the Lee AD and Unique has me totally cornfused!

I bought one about 10 years ago - don't use the discs, but replaced them with the micrometer adjustable charge bar option.

The first thing I did after breaking it in was to do calibration curves with Bullseye, IMR4227 and Unique, the only powders I use in it. I did drops at 0.1 setpoint intervals, then plotted that data and did a linear regression. All 3 types of powder had minimum dispensing rates to provide good accuracy (i.e., if you go lower it won't feed consistently), but from there on up the mathematical confidence factor was 99.98%.

For example, for Unique the minimum load iot would feed uniformly was 4.0 grains, which is fine for my use because all of my loads use a higher amount. In all these years, when I go to reload, I select the charge I want, set the micrometer based on my graph and then drop a few to verify that I'm getting the right amount. I rarely have to make a setpoint adjustment and my repeatability is + or - 0.1 grain.

I really don't see much difference among powder lots, and 95% of the time my first drop is right on.

Maybe the adjustable charge bar works better than the discs!

 

[festus1]

I should have explained the under weight rounds better. with the lee1000 I was rotating the cases to inspect cases/reseat primers etc... and in the proccess the case sensor got enganged. So the powder die wasnt droping any powder.

I figured out that I shoud just fix any high primers by running the finnished rounds through my lee clasic as the progressive needs all three stations to have cases in them for it to function. Hopfully that makes sense.

Running a loaded round thru a press to seat the primer lower is not safe. If you are haveing problems with high primers use a hand primer tool first and then finish the rounds in the press.

 

[JohnK]

I am not familiar with the Lee press, but you HAVE to develop a method to visually verify, the powder height in EACH case.

It's easy with a SDB Dillon.

You are flirting with disaster here.