New S&W 686+ Slap Peening & S&W's Customer Service

[PiusX]

Hey all,

I recently bought a S&W 686+ and fired a box of .357 thru it and dry fired it a fair amount. (~200 times) I was disappointed to see excessive wear in the cylinder latches and on the cylinder ratchet. The ratchet is visibly chewed up with many burrs and peening on all 7 latches.

I looked up the issues in the Kuhnhausen shop manual and read that it is caused by an improper fitment of the hand and ratchet when the revolver was assembled.

I emailed S&W and got a return label and sent it in. A month later, I received the gun and am extremely disappointed in what I got back. No work had been done on the cylinder or the ratchet and the paperwork included in the box said that they checked the cylinder for opening and closing and test fired it.

Here are some pictures of it and labeled from before the "repairs" and after the "repairs".

Pictures hereS&W 686+ Slap Peening pre and post 'repairs' - Album on Imgur

Am I overreacting for what I think is excessive wear on a brand new gun and S&W's lack of service?

 

[Invictus357]

Welcome to the forum. This is a good place to share the highs and lows.

You gun's condition is not acceptable.

Call and ask for a return label. Enclose a polite letter with the gun and precisely state what you want fixed on your gun.

I have done the same and have received the most excellent service from SW.

 

[shocker]

Am I overreacting for what I think is excessive wear on a brand new gun and S&W's lack of service?

The ratchet shouldn't gall like that, mine have stayed pristine after many cycles.
When you sent the gun in you included a detailed note on what the problems were?

 

[PiusX]

I did. I enclosed the email I had sent to them and included the in house tracking number I received from them.

 

[ImDrRich]

Thanks for the great photography - very helpful. Send it back, but if it comes back like that, write a letter to the president of the company requesting his assistance in making things right. I have no doubt you'll get what you need.

 

[Rodan]

Last year I bought a 686+ at Cabelas (used) and the star had similar burring, which of course I didn't notice until I got it home. Now that I was aware of the issue, I've seen it on several new guns I've looked at in shops... apparently, it's not all that uncommon on the newer revolvers.

IMHO it's a pretty disappointing level of QC on S&W's part if that passes for 'acceptable'.

 

[garbler]

As the man said nice Photos/macros. You do have a problem and it appears the gun is working against itself as in out of time. No way I would or could diagnose this without having my hands on it. However you need to know that S&W hands are hardened as in only a stone or surface grinder will remove metal and that extractor stars are much softer by design so some degree of carving is to be expected. It’s a weak point in the S&W design.

Rick

 

[SLT223]

Last year I bought a 686+ at Cabelas (used) and the star had similar burring, which of course I didn't notice until I got it home. Now that I was aware of the issue, I've seen it on several new guns I've looked at in shops... apparently, it's not all that uncommon on the newer revolvers.

IMHO it's a pretty disappointing level of QC on S&W's part if that passes for 'acceptable'.

Ive found it to be fairly common across decades of production.

 

[JDinAZ]

from the very nice clear pics (kudos its hard to do)

my good sir it looks like what may be causeing you issue(s) at the shaving and beating on the ratchet as well as the peen at the cylinder stops is one of two most likely things that make your cylinder be out of time = timed slow.

but i will ist a few that could make it happen also.

1 ratchet od is too small, i just checked a handfull of cylinders i have on the bench and the ratchets in all of those do not rotate in the cylinder recess as far as yours does in the one pic. i.e. overlap in the charging hole. this could be the ratchet was od sized too small or the recess in the cylinder is too big on the od.
this could leave the charging hole sitting "early" in clocking when the round goes off. (first picture in your link)




^ most likely candidate


2 a few of the cylinder stop notches are out of time. doubtful but could be if the machining process is off a bit at the factory.

3 the charging holes themselves are not all on the proper 51.428571 degrees per hole. i almost think this could be it as well making you have a compound issue(s). due to it looks from this pic that the ratchet overlays the charging holes a bit more on a few hols but it lines up pretty good at others. cant tell from the pic id have to get it up on the inspection station and degree it to check.

id have to play with the gun in my hands to nail down the exact reason it does it so dont take this as gospel but its all my best assesment which if dug into one of these should fix that gun.

when you compare the peened ratchet areas do they directly coincide with the opposing @ 180 degree cylinder stop notches that exhibit a peen as well. if both are peening in opposing conjunction then id say the charging hole for atleast that one is off a bit either by machining or ftcu failure to carry up. any way you cut it id bet its slow on timing on that hole.

the ratchet shaving on the pawl lead edge of the next carry up pawl on the ratchet would happen when the cyl takes a snap rotation counterclockwise trying to correct itself. (backside from where the hand pushes up on the ratchet to advance cyl to the next hole)

both of these marks would be indicative of the cylinder trying to rotate when the round goes off meaning the throat at the face where the BC gap is is not properly aligned with the forcing cone when the projectile is exiting the cylinder and entering the forcing cone.

in this type scenario what will happen is the cylinder will want to rotate a bit when the bullet nose hits the forcing cone. what it wants to do is be straight on thru but the bullet hits a bit too far off center (to the right / clockwise / early / slow) in the forcing cone which make the cylinder take a small "snap rotation" (to the left / counterclockwise) when the bullet is part way out of the cylinder and part way into the forcing cone.

i.e. self aligning thru force. which would make the cylinder notch slap against the cyl stop creating that mark. and hand mark/shave on ratchet face.

then on the "recoil" (every action has an equal and opposite reaction) the ratchet slaps against the hand and makes the mark on the side of the ratchet pawl. before the hand can drop back down into the frame so its in play to advance the cyl to the next hole.

by seeing the peen on the cylinder notch area it would suggest slow timing i.e. not enough carry up. which would create the counter clockwisse rotation thru force as the bullet tries to alighn the cyll throat and forcing cone so it can pass on thru to the rifiling and so on.

but also the small halfmoon peen at the cyl stop notch area almost makes a man wonder if the cyl is fully locking up before it goes off. reason for this question is by height and shear speed this small "snap rotation" would happen in. the cyl stop could actually still be in the recess ahead of the actual depth cutout it should fall into before the hammer drops. that could be an optical illusion but id sure check it anyway while you are at it.

didnt mean to throw one more thing into the mix for you to look at but thats kinda a biggie and should not be overlooked. the cyl stop must fully lock up the cyl prior to the round going off or bad things can happen as we all know.

didnt mean to write a book on this one but its kinda hard to explain stuff for me typing sometimes. im kinda different since i draft 3d wire framed images in my head to the tenth then write the programs for the things on the machines and used to write alot of e=mc2 type stuff if then else statement parametric programs for folks cncs in different industries so dont mean to be so indepth and technical but its my nature.

way easier if im standing there and can walk folks thru it with the gun in thier hand and point to areas with a scribe or something. visual yeh know which we all are cause we always want to see good clear pics so we can help a fellow smith wheelgun lover on this board