New Shield 9 not liking winchester pdx1

[cjpitt1985]

Ok, first post here, long time reader.

I just recently bought a brand new Shield 9mm. Today I took it to the range for the first time.

As usual, I tried a mag of what I was planning on carrying. I have some 124gr +p PDX1's that I bought when they first came out a few years back and were heavily advertised. They would hang up, failure to extract. It should be noted that I cleaned this gun with Hoppes 9 oil before I went and shot it.

I also had some generic Winchester White Box 147gr hollow points, did not have a problem with them at all. I also shot some 147 gr American Eagle Flatpoints and some 115gr WWB ammo without a single hangup.

Has anyone had a problem with these rounds? I know people complained about critical duty, and also I know the gun is not "broken in", but is this a common occurrence or something I should notify S&W about. I have fed these rounds through a CZ75 p07 and a Tristar C-100 (turkish cz75 copy) with no problems at all. I was under the impression that M&P's were just a good as glocks, but that kinda left a bad taste in my mouth. I'm not used to modern guns malfunctioning with any type of ammo.

If it is the case, Shields just don't like pdx1's, what hollow points would you recommend. I don't really trust WWB as far as my life is concerned considering I have a p229 that will feed anything but 165gr bulk WWB rounds and I know that SIG is pretty damn reliable. I load up my glock and SIG which are both 40's with Speer Gold Dots and they run flawlessly and are usually a good price. Also I can get Hornady 147gr XTP's for pretty cheap (17 bucks for 25). If those run I'm not concerened really.

Anyway thanks for any advice. Right now I have my mags loaded with the 147 american eagle flat points just because I know that they still will hurt someone pretty badly if I have to used it and American Eagle is good stuff.

 

[Golphin]

I am thinking it must be weak ammo. I had some Tula ammo that mine would not run because it did not work the slide well enough. I have tried low load reloads and it does not like those either. After a few 100 rounds it will loosen up some but I just stay with good ammo or load my own.

 

[cjpitt1985]

It is +p ammo so it shouldn't be weak, and I was shooting weaker stuff through it, WWB 115 grain target ammo was going through just fine, plus 3 different kinds of ammo that are supposed to be weaker. This is $1 a round stuff. Though after my German SIG p229 would hang up with WWB 165 grain target stuff I have gotten weary of the QC of winchester ammo as of late. Even though it did cycle in my glock, and my sig does have some age to it, it simply should not malfuction. I have brand new mags too.

After reading a little, it seems that Shields don't really seem to like a lot of +p period. I don't know why, but maybe it is too hot? Like I said the WWB 147gr hollow points went through fine.

Also with those rounds, when I rack the slide I have to press forward on the slide for it to go forward into battery. It also does that when I'm "dry cycling" it with the WWB hollow points too (emptying it out by racking it over and over). My experience with 1911s makes me think of the feed ramp.

S&W has got me covered for life on this gun right? I bought it from a huge gun store brand new. I've never done it before but do I have to register it or something? The only pistols I've bought at stores previously were used or had like a 1 year warranty. I appreciate any information I can get.

 

[bulrid8]

You can go to S&W website and register the warrenty.

 

[cjpitt1985]

yeah I did that just now, thanks though. Also I registered a M&P 15 sport I bought last November. I know it said 30 days but it still let me register it.

 

[hoc9sw]

Also with those rounds, when I rack the slide I have to press forward on the slide for it to go forward into battery. It also does that when I'm "dry cycling" it with the WWB hollow points too (emptying it out by racking it over and over). My experience with 1911s makes me think of the feed ramp.

I've actually never "registered" mine, but I was asked when/where I bought it when I called in the first time. If you are pleasant to them, the guys on the CS line react with courtesy. I can hear in their voices that they live on phone lines with people who want to dump on them. I work a CS phone, so know the signs.

The "failure to battery" was a big issue for me. After a few trips back, it was fixed. Intentionally or accidentally, I don't know. I did go through 3 barrels before it worked right. It is now perfect, but I have never used your ammo. My preferred is Federal Hydro-shock 124g JHP, but I am also liking the Remington UMC 115g JHP, which speaks like +P, and is priced like range ammo. So it is easier for me - arthritis guy, I don't like to unload / reload mags, so I'm using the UMC JHP in all but the one real EDC mag. If I have to use any mag in the case, it is at least JHP.

The guys at Smith tell me the Shield is designed for 124g. I have not tried 147 in my Shield.

 

[cjpitt1985]

Thanks, yeah I don't plan on being rude to them. There is no reason to do so. The guy on the end of the line didn't make my gun, so there's no reason to be upset with him.

I know how some gun people are, with some sense of entitlement behind them. Honestly I can't blame them much for wanting a gun to work right out of the box. There's no need to be rude though.

 

[hardluk1]

Try some 124gr gold dots and see how it runs But First do a plunk test with your dpx HP ammo just to see if they fully chamber .

 

[Dave707]

A guy on YouTube did a series of very comprehensive tests called Ammo Quest 9mm to determine which currently available 9mm Defensive Ammunition performed best out of short (3") barreled 9mm pistols. The testing was performed shooting into blocks of Ballistic Gelatin to determine which loads both expanded and penetrated optimally. The ammunition was fired into both bare Gelatin and also through four layers of heavyweight Denim material to simulate clothing.

In the end, Standard Pressure Federal HST in 124gr and 147gr were among the top performers with the 147gr edging the 124gr slightly. 147gr +P HST's were also tested and were found to penetrate slightly farther than 147gr Standard Pressure but the SP edged the +P overall. If I remember correctly, +P 124gr Original, not G2, Speer Gold Dots came in second.

I purchased some of the HST 147gr Standard Pressure and have run 100 rounds through both my Shield 9mm and my full-size M&P 9 Pro. 50 rounds were fired in both weapons when they were clean and 50 rounds dirty after firing 300 rounds of FMJ plinking ammo. Both fed/functioned the HST 100% so it's what I'm going to rely on as my Defense loading, at least in 9mm.

Since I made my decision about 4 months, some new ammo from Winchester, the Ranger T and the Defend series in 147gr, have tested slightly better than the Federal HST so they might bear consideration.

Here's a link to YouTube search results for all the 9mm ammunition that was tested. Ammo Quest also tests all the other major defensive Handgun calibers popular today.
http://m.youtube.com/results?sp=CAASAggA&search_query=youtube+ammo+quest+9mm



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[cjpitt1985]

I decided to go ahead and send it in.

At first the woman was "well it can be finnicky with ammo" and she told me I should contact the manufacturer of the ammo. I told her it is a defense pistol and shouldn't be jamming with premium hollow points. They transferred me to a guy S&W said it should be firing PDX1's fine and I need to send it in. Hopefully they replace the extractor and polish the feed ramp and it is okay.

Looking back on it I did have a failure to eject with a WWB 147 jhp. I had forgotten about it, due to being mad about my $1 per round

Excellent customer service from them so far. What is the turn around time for them?

 

[kornhouse]

I don't have the manual on me but as I was looking through it yesterday I recall it saying to not use +P as it could cause FTE

 

[hoc9sw]

At first the woman was "well it can be finnicky with ammo" and she told me I should contact the manufacturer of the ammo. I told her it is a defense pistol and shouldn't be jamming with premium hollow points.

Real problem is that both positions are correct. I have some JHP that will run without problem in an H&K, but won't even chamber in the Shield. It is all about bullet design. That is why testing with your intended SD ammo is so important.

And yes, a SD firearm should handle premium ammo, but in my experience, that is a pipe dream. I came from a 1911 .45 ball world where everything always worked, so had some expensive lessons upon entering the striker-fired and JHP world.

It costs to do the experiments. Several of us at the range swap leftovers from boxes that have failed in one pistol to try in a different one.

It usually takes 2-3 weeks for stuff to come back to me.

But yes, sending it in is the best route (as I see it). There may be something they'll see right out of the box. And on their nickel.

 

[cjpitt1985]

Real problem is that both positions are correct. I have some JHP that will run without problem in an H&K, but won't even chamber in the Shield. It is all about bullet design. That is why testing with your intended SD ammo is so important.

And yes, a SD firearm should handle premium ammo, but in my experience, that is a pipe dream. I came from a 1911 .45 ball world where everything always worked, so had some expensive lessons upon entering the striker-fired and JHP world.

It costs to do the experiments. Several of us at the range swap leftovers from boxes that have failed in one pistol to try in a different one.

It usually takes 2-3 weeks for stuff to come back to me.

But yes, sending it in is the best route (as I see it). There may be something they'll see right out of the box. And on their nickel.

Yeah, and I did read in the manual some brands might have FTE's. It doesn't say specifically +p but it is on the same page. Is it just the shield that is like this or is it all M&P? I just wonder, since they are a direct competitor with Glock, if this is an issue with the full size or M&Pc's.

Might as well send it in, maybe they'll polish the feed ramp or something for me. Maybe there isn't a problem. I saw a topic about the 40 shield's feed ramp not liking the pdx1's because they are jagged. Anyway thanks for the help. I'm pretty sure I'll send it back, but I am tempted to go buy some gold dots and be done with it, because gold dots seem to work it about anything.

Maybe I'll just spoiled by Glock or something but I thought it would be just as good. It kinda puts a bitter taste in my mouth to have a malfunction period. If I get one with a glock I start wondering if the mags are going bad or if I'm doing something wrong. I do have a pricey p229 that will feed anything but WWB bulk ammo though. It will run any jhp's that I've tried including PDX1.

 

[PHolster]

I don't have the manual on me but as I was looking through it yesterday I recall it saying to not use +P as it could cause FTE

No, the manual doesn't say that. It says that +P ammo can result in more frequent need for service. It then goes on to say to never use +P+ ammo.

The Shield should have no problem eating +P ammo. Mine actually eats anything including cheap Tulamo.

To the OP, you said you cleaned it with Hoppes No. 9 Oil, was that a misstatement or did you actually clean it with oil? Did you clean it with Hoppes No. 9 solvent and then oil according to the manual, or did you just use oil? Of course it did eat everything else.

 

[S&W Al]

It's always been my understanding that I would be wasting my time with the +p ammo with such a short barrel. The increased explosion will not add to the kinetic energy of the bullet. This is due to the fact that the excess explosion from the +p round will manifest itself outside of the barrel (hence the flame following the bullet).

Please let me know if I'm wrong. I have certain guns that I will shoot +p rounds through and if I'm comparing apples to apples (same bullet mass), I should not get increased velocity with a hotter round. Am I wrong in that or are the +p's so quick to burn, that most of the kinetic energy is imparted on the bullet before it leaves the 3" barrel?

 

[cjpitt1985]

No, the manual doesn't say that. It says that +P ammo can result in more frequent need for service. It then goes on to say to never use +P+ ammo.

The Shield should have no problem eating +P ammo. Mine actually eats anything including cheap Tulamo.

To the OP, you said you cleaned it with Hoppes No. 9 Oil, was that a misstatement or did you actually clean it with oil? Did you clean it with Hoppes No. 9 solvent and then oil according to the manual, or did you just use oil? Of course it did eat everything else.

I cleaned it with a Birchwood "Gun Scrubber" cleaner (which works wonders), then lubed it with Hoppe's 9 oil.

That is the way I clean all of my guns including long guns and have for years(though recently have been considering Ballistol). I have had nothing but positive results using this combination.

Trust me, I'm not exactly a newbie when it comes to this stuff, the gun was clean and was running wet. And you're right it was eating everything else no problem.

 

[PHolster]

I cleaned it with a Birchwood "Gun Scrubber" cleaner (which works wonders), then lubed it with Hoppe's 9 oil.

That is the way I clean all of my guns including long guns and have for years(though recently have been considering Ballistol). I have had nothing but positive results using this combination.

Trust me, I'm not exactly a newbie when it comes to this stuff, the gun was clean and was running wet. And you're right it was eating everything else no problem.

Good stuff, I figured that was just a misstatement. I hope you figure it out. I have never used much oil on mine by the way. It seems to do great with very little oil. I truly doubt that has anything to do with what you are dealing with though.

 

[cjpitt1985]

Oh indeed.

Most Glocks and XD's run fine dry and I was assuming this would do about as well.

I had a g19 once that would fire after being dunked into muddy water. This gun was at least 10 years old when I bought the thing and was already considerably beat up looking. I think I cleaned that gun 3 times in the 500 or so times I fired it and it only had one FTeject on the last round one time on some steel monarch crappy ammo. The extractor did eventually break and I ended up just selling it for a CZ75p07. I still carry my g27 though I'm not a huge fan of shooting it a ton due to 40 caliber pushishment (I try to shoot soft stuff like fed champ too). My hands/wrists are getting old from shooting too much and fixing computers. I knew a shield 40 was out of the question.

 

[PHolster]

Oh indeed.

Most Glocks and XD's run fine dry and I was assuming this would do about as well.

I had a g19 once that would fire after being dunked into muddy water. This gun was at least 10 years old when I bought the thing and was already considerably beat up looking. I think I cleaned that gun 3 times in the 500 or so times I fired it and it only had one FTeject on the last round one time on some steel monarch crappy ammo. The extractor did eventually break and I ended up just selling it for a CZ75p07. I still carry my g27 though I'm not a huge fan of shooting it a ton due to 40 caliber pushishment (I try to shoot soft stuff like fed champ too). My hands/wrists are getting old from shooting too much and fixing computers. I knew a shield 40 was out of the question.

I understand that. My hand and wrist is currently sore from shooting about 400 rounds through my Kimber Solo over two days. It is nothing like the Shield. The Shield in 9mm is nice too shoot, the Solo is incredibly snappy.

 

[tjhodges310]

My Shield 9 loves Gold Dot 124 +p.. Good luck!