New to 2400... got some really dumb questions

[musicmanbass]

Hey guys, I've been loading for a few years, but I just got my first pound of 2400 to try out. I gave it a shot in two different weights under a 240gr JHP in .44 mag.

First really stupid question: Sometimes I see references to "Herc 2400" and then other times just "2400". Are these both referring to the same powder?

Second, Lee's Modern reloading v2 shows a max load of just 18.7gr at 34,800 psi for a 240gr jacketed bullet. I've got a Lyman #47 and it shows 21.6gr for the same bulletat 35,500 cup ( I know, different measure of pressure) What do you guys load?

Since my Lee manual had such a low charge weight listed, I went with that first. I loaded some at 15.9gr and another batch at 17.0gr Both of them shot fine, but I have NEVER had so much burnt crud out of anything! My shooting bench was covered in black "dirt" and I had to blow the crap from around the action a number of times to clear sticks and jams. If I increase the charge a little more, should I see better ignition? I use a pretty heavy crimp in general, so I don't THINK that's the problem.

This is what I've been shooting them in:

Thanks guys!

 

[musicmanbass]

Hey guys, I've been loading for a few years, but I just got my first pound of 2400 to try out. I gave it a shot in two different weights under a 240gr JHP in .44 mag.

First really stupid question: Sometimes I see references to "Herc 2400" and then other times just "2400". Are these both referring to the same powder?

Second, Lee's Modern reloading v2 shows a max load of just 18.7gr at 34,800 psi for a 240gr jacketed bullet. I've got a Lyman #47 and it shows 21.6gr for the same bulletat 35,500 cup ( I know, different measure of pressure) What do you guys load?

Since my Lee manual had such a low charge weight listed, I went with that first. I loaded some at 15.9gr and another batch at 17.0gr Both of them shot fine, but I have NEVER had so much burnt crud out of anything! My shooting bench was covered in black "dirt" and I had to blow the crap from around the action a number of times to clear sticks and jams. If I increase the charge a little more, should I see better ignition? I use a pretty heavy crimp in general, so I don't THINK that's the problem.

This is what I've been shooting them in:

Thanks guys!

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

Herco 2400 is, I believe, an older form of 2400, from before Alliant began producing it. This may be from whence the rumors come about "newer" 2400 being slightly faster.

Regarding your loads, they are quite light for the Magnum, and that probably has a great deal to do with how dirty the gun is getting. Understand, though, that even at max charges and heavy crimp, I have NEVER gotten 2400 to be a "clean" powder. I just gave up and learned to clean more.

You loaded charges in your Magnum equivalent to what I load in .44 Special cases (though I use cast bullets). Going heavier on your charges will probably help some.

 

[musicmanbass]

Cool. Thanks for the help! I'm not worried about having squeaky clean loads, but these were insane!! I'll work up anothr batch in steps up to 21.2gr and see how that does.

I also wasn't too impressed with the terminal performance of those lighter loads I made before. They didn't seem any more powerful than my titegroup plinking loads!

 

[john traveler]

Hercules was the original producer of 2400, Bullseye, Unique, Herco, Red Dot, Green Dot, and Blue Dot powders. Alliant bought out Hercules and continued production.

 

[AzShooter]

All manuals are different. My Sierra gives a minimum charge of 19.5 grains of 2400 for a velocity of 1250 fps and a max charge of 21.3 for 1350 fps.

 

[Skip Sackett]

Alliant list 21gr as a maximum load with a 240gr Gold Dot bullet.

Here is what I have noticed about 2400. It leaves unburnt powder in the barrel. The lower the charge per caliber the worse it is. I don't know how temperature affects that but would only assume that it needs a hotter primer to get going as the temperature goes down.

The Winchesters that are formulated for either type of loads would be OK. If it were me, and the temperature was near 30*F or less, I would use magnum primers. I have noticed significant consistency increases with 2400 and magnum primers in the larger cases. Just remember to drop the top load a little and work it back up with them.

2400 may not be one of the "cleanest", however you determine that, powders available but, it is the powder that Elmer Keith used to develop the first 44mag.

FWIW

 

[n4zov]

Powder residue is one of the reasons I stopped using 2400 and switched to WW-296 a long time ago.

 

[Steve C]

Speer #13 and current Alliant on line data says 21 grs of 2400 is max (19 grs is start) with a 240gr bullet in the .44 mag. DO NOT USE MAGNUM PRIMERS, instead use the CCI 300 if you use these heavier charges as magnum primers produce high pressure with 2400 and it doesn't need them for reliable ignition or burn. 2001 edition Alliant data says 18.7grs is max using a Win LP primer (note the difference).

I use 2400, W296 and H110 in my .41 mag and see no more excess powder fouling with 2400 than I see with H110. Both leave little balls of burnt powder, the W296/H110 may be a bit smaller. You do use about 10% more powder for loads using W296 and H110.

 

[John R]

I always use the Winchester primers for large pistol loads, they only make one and it's for both regular and magnum loads.
All the newer loading data with 2400 is set up to use standard primers only.
But you can use the Winchester large primer.

I use magnum primers in my small pistol loads, only when using 296 or H-110

 

[venomballistics]

for the first question, Before ATK took over, 2400 was made and sold under the Hercules brand. This is now Alliant and data refers to the same powder. though I might look upon "herc" data with a couple grains of suspicion in that "herc" would be a dated term meaning that the data is right around a decade old.
things dont need a whole decade to change.

now onto the second question.
when looking at three hypothetical bullets, say a 240 grain cast SWC, a 240 grain TC and a 240 grain JSP, despite the weight being identical, each will display a unique redline. This is due to the differences of space taken up by the bullet shank in the case as well as the effort each will require to be shipped down the barrel.
even extreme differences in hardness between bullets out of the same mold will display some change in pressure when different alloys are used.

and finaly, your unburnt powder issue.
yup ... if your not over flattening your primers, you probably have room to raise the charge. As pressures increase, so does the completeness of the burn.
with what you have at hand, I suspect you will have one heck of a good cast load on your hands after your done hammering it out.