New to me Victory! NOW with cool PICS!

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Well I just picked up a Victory in .38 S&W that came with 500 rounds of .38 S&W. It looks to have the usual 5" barrel, has "United States Property" on the top strap and has a pre-V serial number of 8848XX. It also has S&W checked grips which I believe are correct for this period. Has some markings on the right side of the frame that I beleive indicate it was rebuilt (FTR) in Austraila in 1953. Can't wait to go shoot it!

Anyone have something similiar????

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Well I just picked up a Victory in .38 S&W that came with 500 rounds of .38 S&W. It looks to have the usual 5" barrel, has "United States Property" on the top strap and has a pre-V serial number of 8848XX. It also has S&W checked grips which I believe are correct for this period. Has some markings on the right side of the frame that I beleive indicate it was rebuilt (FTR) in Austraila in 1953. Can't wait to go shoot it!

Anyone have something similiar????

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You have a relatively early Lend-Lease pre-Victory there. It probably shipped shortly after Pearl Harbor: either late Dec., 1941, or January, 1942. Checkered stocks were, at this point, being phased out in favor of the plain-Jane smooth ones we see more frequently, but they were still using up the old stock of the checkered ones for several more months. Check under the right side panel to see if the SN matches; as it's been FTR'd, it would be unusual. I assume it is now showing Australian "parkerizing" instead of its original blued finish? Does it have the "P" proof, Ordnance Dept. "flaming bomb" and Inspector's "W.B." (plain or boxed?) initials at the butt? How about some pics?!

See my post below re an advert for the Australian Victory Models.

Steve
 
Arrgghhh, the grips don't match the S/N on the rest of the gun. The gun does look parkerized, I assume by the Aussies. The butt does have the US ordnance flaming bomb and WB.
I will get pics up when I get back into town next week. Thanks. Any idea of value?
 
Does the gun have an importer's stamp on it? Depending on mechanical condition, these Aussie reworks seem to go for about $250-$350 at So. Calif gun shows, with import stamps and rework marks, and original grips, if still in .38S&W caliber.
 
It does have an importers stamp on the left side of the frame that says, "VEGA SAC CA" so I know it was imported by Vega out of Sacramento, CA. Mechanical conditon seems to be excellent, it is still in .38 S&W but the grips S/N is not matching.
I'm going to get a letter for it.
 
Just at a guess, I'd estimate that ~90% of Australian FTR'd Victory & pre-Victory Models have mis-matched stocks (and non-original finishes) and that they probably all carry an importer's marking (since it seems that they weren't released from their reserve stores until after the passage of our GCA'68 which required such a marking). Since (edited to read) evidence indicates the Australians did not routinely mark their guns with ownership marks (such as the Canadians with their "C" encircling the 'Broad Arrow') on receipt, the FTR markings are the only way we might identify it as an Aussie without an historical letter from Roy (for pre-Lend Lease examples shipped directly to the B.P.C. "Down Under") or other reliable provenance. WW2 bring-back revolvers that escaped the FTR of the mid-1950s are pretty scarce, in this country anyways. While I'd estimate that Australian V.M.s of all variety are probably more common than Canadian- and, certainly, New Zealand- and South African-marked examples, they're still a great find, IMO. (And, I personally find the FTR markings to be less annoying than the multitude of postwar civilian proofs found on the ubiquitous British versions.)

BTW, the pre-war checkered stocks have value of their own. If you wanted, you'd probably find someone here willing to swap them with you, if the letter shows it originally shipped with the plain version.

Once you get the letter, please post the info (or e-mail me off-forum at [email protected]) for the database. In the meantime, crank up that digital camera and post some pics!

Steve
 
Steve, the Australian Victory Models will generally be stamped with a D/|\D (D Broad Arrow D) Australian Department of Defense mark. I have seen many of the imports from the mid-1980's and everyone I have seen has the FTR marks with dates of '53 or '54 if I recall.
 
I have a pre victory that letters to Australia which is still blue. It has no markings other then the ones S&W put on it when shipped. Some how it came into the country without import marks, must be pre 68. Perhaps it was brought back by a GI who traded a Aussie out of it or took it from one who no longer had any use for it. It is serial 773,895 and was shipped on May 19th 1941 to the British Purchasing commission in Sidney Australia, with 5 inch barrel, blue finish and checkered walnut grips.
 
Walter,

I have edited my above post to clarify my comment about Australian property markings. As DRB has mentioned, it is not unusual for the (relatively few) examples of which we are aware that have no "FTR" markings to have no 'Broad Arrow,' "D/|\D" or "A/|\F" property markings either. It is distinctly possible that these guns did not have their property markings applied until the time that the FTR was performed. When I said that the FTR markings were what indicated Australian usage, I meant that the FTR markings also included application of the property marking(s).

BTW, on this topic, I have corresponded with a collector from across the Tasman Sea in New Zealand who states that although it was standard practice during WW2 to mark all of their small arms with "NZ" property markings, the Victory Models were an exception and that those V.M.s we've seen with "NZ" backstrap-markings were so marked in the postwar years and not on receipt.

It appears (although, again, I'm drawing these conclusions from a relatively small number of examples) that it was not standard practice to mark Victory Models on receipt in "the Antipodes," which is why the only time we see guns with property markings, they also have FTR or rack numbers (sometimes, I believe, referred to, erroneously, as "unit numbers"). I infer that the latter were applied as a means of inventory control during a time when many (most?) of these guns weren't being issued to individuals on a permanent basis, but rather issued temporarily on an as-needed basis (e.g, to MPs).

I'd sure like to hear from any Australian collectors on board here about the dating of the markings. Does anyone else have a non-Australian-marked, non-FTR'd example with an Australian provenance?

BTW, Charlie's and my database shows FTR dates from '53, '54 & '55.

Steve
 
When the ammo is gone you'll have to reload.

Did I mention that I happen to have some dies for sale?
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My request for a letter is on its way to Mr Roy Jinks! Thanks for all the comments and info.
 
Thanks Steve. That's good information. Possibly the Aussies didn't mark them upon receipt with the D Broad Arrow D mark because they were considered "Lend Lease" guns and they anticipated returning them when the war was over?
 
My Aussie pre victory has no United States Property marking on it and and no Aussie markings it is not lend lease but direct purchase as evidenced by the shipping address.
 
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