New to reloading and 9mm help

[jcraft203]

Hi all,
First time reloading and going to work up some loads this weekend. First, I will be shooting a shield and an sd9ve. I have settled on 125 gr. Lead conical nose and hodgon hp-38. Looking at the hodgon site it calls for 3.9 min. To 4.4 max powder charge with an overall length of 1.125". So with that I was thinking of loading 20 rounds ( 10 for each gun) and starting at 3.9 then another 20 at 4.1 and 20 at 4.3. then I have a range to see what cycles best in each gun. 3.9 to 4.4 is not a big range though. Does this sound like a good plan and anyone have experience with these two guns with this bullet combo and know if they cycle wit min. Charges. Also what kinds of problems would you see if powder charge wasn't enough. Thx

 

[iouri]

Sounds like a good plan. Don't hang up on COAL (overall length) it will be different for different bullet profiles. To find out what OAL works in your guns load a dummy round, remove barrel from your gun and do a "plunk" test - drop the round in the chamber (it would make "plunk" sound hence the name ). Make sure it seated properly and then turn barrel upside down - round should fall out freely. If it fails seat bullet a little deeper until dummy round goes in and out of the chamber freely - that's going to be your OAL.

 

[Speedo2]

Good advice given above. One other thing to check after the PT is to make sure they fit and extract properly from your magazines. Not so much a problem with 9mm's, but can be problematic for some smaller calibers, like 380ACP. Ask me how I know that. -S2

 

[Tom-R2]

And if you're looking for just plinking rounds, you could even load some slightly lower than the minimum, it should still cycle your slide OK. I load lots of coated 9mm plinking rounds for the range that function just fine in all 5 of our 9mm pistols. We do have some other rounds that are loaded about half-way between min and max as well. See what works for you and fulfills what you want done. Don't under load them too much or they won't cycle and that could create a problem if the slug doesn't clear the barrel. No matter if it's handloads or factory loads, immediately stop if a shot doesn't seem "right".

 

[apollo99]

When I test a new load especially a minimum or slightly below minimum load, I stand pretty close to the target. I make sure every bang makes a visible hole in the target. This is actually more important in revolver load testing than a semi, as the semi usually doesn't cycle with a squib, but I still do it for both.

 

[Twoboxer]

You put together a very good plan IMO. I would do the same loads . . . only difference is I would make only 5 rounds per charge per gun. Enough for testing, no waste of effort/components on loads you choose not to use.

If I had some factory close to the weight of my loads (even 115gr ball would do) I'd add 5 rounds for each gun to get a baseline for comparison of POI, recoil, and ejection distance. And, if fired at least 10yds from a rest, you'd be able to get some idea of relative accuracy from the now 4 test loads per gun.

GLHF and stay safe!

 

[Wise_A]

In addition to the above (especially about OAL and plunk-testing), I would suggest the following:

--After testing, resist the urge to immediately crank out 500 rounds of your new load. Start with a box or two, and work from there. Nothing worse than finding out the 5 you made were just lucky, or that the load isn't reliable in mass production (yes, when you're churning ammo out, sometimes the loads aren't as consistent as when you were going slow).

--You may find it difficult to produce 5 cartridges of exactly, say, 3.9 grains. Dirty secret, when most guys say their load is Y grains, a lot of the time, they actually mean "most of them were between X and Z grains". Don't sweat it, so long as the highs and lows aren't horribly unsafe. Just drop five cartridges that average around 3.9, and then bump up to 4.1 or whatever--and then mark your logs or label with the powder drop volume setting you used. Remember, when you start producing in bulk, you're not going to be weighing every charge and pitching out everything that's not accurate to .1 grains, so doing it this way is a lot more realistic than testing 5 @ precisely 3.9.

 

[scooter123]

Actually there is a method that can be used to insure that your charge weights fall within a specific range. That method is something that has been used in Manufacturing since the 19050's in Japan and since the early to mid 1980's in the US. This method is called Statistical Process Controls and uses what is called a Capability Study to determine the Max/Min and Range for a specific Process.

It is actually quite easy to do a Capability Study because most scientific calculators today feature Statistical functions. What you do is carefully weigh and record the weight of 30 consecutive charges. Then you plug those numbers into the Statistical function on your calculator. Once all 30 charge weights are entered then you hit the button for the Standard Deviation (usually labeled as SD). Then hit the button for the Average (usually labled as an X with a bar above it). Take the SD, multiply it times 3, then add or suptract that number from the Average and you have your process Max and Min for that powder charge in YOUR powder measure. BTW, my testing has shown that with a specific powder the Charge Weight won't have any real effect on the Standard Deviation unless you have to use more than one throw to hit the charge weight. So once you know the Standard Deviation for a specific powder you have that number available for any time you use that powder in the future (unless the manufacturer make a major change in the physical structure of the powder). So, if you find H110 has a SD of 0.014 grains in your powder measure you'll know that the +/- for that powder will be 0.042 grains until Hodgdon stops making the current version of H110. Yeah, H110 really does meter that consistently.

A note on weighing each charge throw for a capability study. You can and should guestimate the incremental value between the tick marks on your scale. So if the arrow is half way between the .1 over or .1 under mark put the weight down to the nearest .05 increment. those with really good eyesight can typically guestimate down to about 1/3 of the indicated increment. BTW. if your scale doesn't show a .1 over/under mark then use a fine tip Sharpie and make your own mark. Me, I marked my with a Sharpie and then used a carbide scribe to make a permanent mark.

 

[WR Moore]

Two suggestions: 1. The plunk test is good, but you're better off spending $20 or so on a case gauge to make sure your ammo is within SAAMI specs so far as size. The 9mm is a tapered case and you don't want to oversize the brass-the instructions you get on die setup don't take production tolerances of press and dies into account. You'll also get the odd bulged case once in awhile, the gauge will catch those.

2. Besides the plunk test and making sure your reloads fit into the magazines, make sure they'll actually run through the feed cycle. Wouldn't hurt to do this with dummy rounds (no primer or powder).

And, an extra-I've made it a habit to make up and keep a dummy round for my commonly used bullets. That way if I change bullets in a cartridge, I've got a sample round to use to reset the seating die.

 

[Nevada Ed]

+1 with the above post and #9;

Most loaders do not get into trouble with higher loads but when
they use minimum powder data or maximum OAL with the load.

This will reduce fps and pressures of a load and may cause a Squib .........
or at least maybe a slide to fail to work correctly.
When working with light loads......... I ALWAYS make sure there is a new hole in the target or flying dirt, before pulling the trigger, again !!

Your equipment will tell you what the correct OAL of your loads will be.
Safe loading.

 

[gwpercle]

Use the guns barrels as your gauge. Ammo can fit a gauge and still NOT fit Your barrel.
Work out seating depth with dummies (no primer , no powder), hand cycling through the gun(s). Newer guns seem to have little or no throat so OAL's may need to be shorter than that shown in book.
After getting the OAL worked out with the dummies, save them for setting dies in the future....saves a lot of time.
At times the 9mm and cast bullets can be ...lets say " a big pain" to get all the details worked out.
Don't go below minimum charges untill you get the OAL and crimping correct...then you can experiment with the lower powder charges.
Gary

 

[WR Moore]

Had another one I learned the hard way creep into current memory: if you're using a press that takes standard shell holders, get the Lyman shell holder.

Why? 9 mm cases seem to have very generous variations in diameter. The RCBS shell holder is on the tight side. The Lyman takes both 9 mm and the larger .38 Super, so it'll handle virtually any 9 mm brass.
Since I'd already bought RCBS, I went and bought one for .38 Super too. (The overall height is different between Lyman & RCBS, I'd have had to readjust the dies, too much trouble.)

 

[Qc Pistolero]

Your approach is a good one.I actually load that same bullet and same powder.Between 4.0 and 4.1gr works in both my 9(an old S&W 639 and a CZ Shadow1).

 

[Huskerguy]

Some very good info here. Some of the things I do are:

I am down to one 9mm and it is a CZ which is notorious for having tight throats so the "plunk test" is absolutely necessary. My bullets are a few thousands from touching. I would custom load all my 9 cartridges if I had multiple firearms.

Keep that dummy round for the plunk test as was stated and label it with a magic marker -what does it fit? Then write it down in a log with all of the info - bullet maker, size, shape, etc. You will forget - like I always told students and new teachers, write everything down, you will forget when it is the end of the year and you have to remember what you did.

Use sharpie to label the different loads so you don't risk getting them mixed up.

Always warm up with some factory loads using a rest. When you an get consistent with that then shoot your reloads. The ones you shoot later tend to wander more if you get tired. Take your time and go slow, real slow. I do all test loads from a rest. That is the only way I know if they truly are accurate or I am just having a good day.

Also, since you did 10 rounds. Start out at 20-25 feet for five and then shoot five at 50 feet. Too close and most anything is accurate. The further out you go, the more accuracy shows up.

Take all of this from someone who is NOT an expert like most on here. I am just an old guy who has learned a few things over the years and tries to remember them! Best of luck

 

[rwsmith]

That's the way to do it.....

That's the way to work up a load but you don't necessarily need to go to max unless you are LOOKING for max loads. I think for starters, I'd start a few tenths of a grain lower and end up a little short of max. Mostly likely a stout but not max load will work great. A good target load is often a heavy bullet at slow speed but you still want your pistol to operate well.

A well cleaned, lubed pistol that has had a few round through it SHOULD cycle anything from min to max of well known data. Some guns are more picky and work within a certain range and some will shoot anything.

I'll shoot max loads through many of my pistols, but compact/plastic pistols I'll just to that enough to be good for SD situations. My full size or all metal pistols I'll shoot more max loads through.

My best target load was a sub min load of Acc #7 with a 147 gr SWC. YOU DON'T WANT THE LOAD TO BE SO WEAK THAT YOU ARE IN DANGER OF STICKING YOUR BULLET IN THE BARREL. But I amazed myself with the groups I was making through a full sized metal semi with decent sights even though most semis aren't 'target' guns.

 

[gwpercle]

Had another one I learned the hard way creep into current memory: if you're using a press that takes standard shell holders, get the Lyman shell holder.

Why? 9 mm cases seem to have very generous variations in diameter. The RCBS shell holder is on the tight side. The Lyman takes both 9 mm and the larger .38 Super, so it'll handle virtually any 9 mm brass.
Since I'd already bought RCBS, I went and bought one for .38 Super too. (The overall height is different between Lyman & RCBS, I'd have had to readjust the dies, too much trouble.)

You are so right ! After setting dies with shell holder brand "X", if you pick up brand "Y" next time , your adjustments will all be off.
This was driving me up a wall until I realized I had two different brand shell holders and wasn't paying attention to which one I used ...you can't substitute one brand for another.
Gary

 

[hdwhit]

jcraft203 wrote:
I was thinking of loading 20 rounds ( 10 for each gun) and starting at 3.9 then another 20 at 4.1 and 20 at 4.3. then I have a range to see what cycles best in each gun.

Yes!

That is the very definition of the ladder approach. Just start shooting the lowest charge first.

3.9 to 4.4 is not a big range though.

With HP-38 you may be surprised.

Does this sound like a good plan and anyone have experience with these two guns with this bullet combo and know if they cycle wit min. Charges.

Each gun is different. What works in mine may not work in yours even if the same make and model.

Also what kinds of problems would you see if powder charge wasn't enough.

If the charge is not enough, you may experience failures to extract, failures to eject and failures to feed. This will all come from the fact there is not enough recoil from the fired cartridge to sufficiently drive the slide backward to the limit of its travel.

In my case, I load 9mm with HP-38 and 115 grain bullets. 3.8 grains of HP-38 wouldn't even cycle the action. At 4.5 grains, I was getting pressure signs. The sweet spot for my gun with this bullet turned out to be at 4.2 or 4.3 grains.