Hi I have just acquired a very nice 1st model double action in 44 Russian nickel finish 6½ barrel with adjustable sights plus its original box the serial number is 34076 does anyone know the year of manufacture. I have been on the historical foundation site but the form for a factory letter is geared up for US users especially the payment section. If anyone can help with this I would be very grateful photo attached many thanks Richard.
New UK member help please
- Thread starter richhack
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Best I can find is 1871-1878 with a note saying the serial number range for these guns is "complicated." Further note says first model 1871, second model 1873, third model 1874. hope this helps. didn't think they let you guys actually possess hand guns any more. WELCOME ABOARD
Welcome to the Forum. You have a very nice 44 DA that would have shipped most likely in 1897. All 44 Double Action revolvers are classified as antiques here in the US, but do not know how they classify antiques in the UK.
The gun is a target revolver, which is quite uncommon for this model, and would definitely bring a premium in the US. Nice find, especially with the original box.
The gun is a target revolver, which is quite uncommon for this model, and would definitely bring a premium in the US. Nice find, especially with the original box.
Welcome to the forum.
Well for your first post I would say that you have out done yourself. That is one very sweet revolver and the box is merely the icing on the cake.
Just for comparison sake, what does something like that fetch on your side of the pond? Also, any back story? Was it an auction, dealer, friend??? We like stories...
Well for your first post I would say that you have out done yourself. That is one very sweet revolver and the box is merely the icing on the cake.
Just for comparison sake, what does something like that fetch on your side of the pond? Also, any back story? Was it an auction, dealer, friend??? We like stories...
montezumaz
US Veteran
S&W .44 DA 1st Model (1881-1913)
Standard Catalog of SMITH & WESSON 4th Edition, 2016 by Jim Supica and Richard Nahas, page 122: .44 DA 1st Model (1881-1913) Target Sighted
(Target Model 50% premium.)
Fine: $1,700 ($2,550)
VG: $1,000 ($1,500)
Good: $850 ($1,275)
Fair: $600 ($900)
Standard Catalog of SMITH & WESSON 4th Edition, 2016 by Jim Supica and Richard Nahas, page 122: .44 DA 1st Model (1881-1913) Target Sighted
(Target Model 50% premium.)
Fine: $1,700 ($2,550)
VG: $1,000 ($1,500)
Good: $850 ($1,275)
Fair: $600 ($900)
We can but they have to be classed as section
58(2) of the Firearms Act 1968.which means they are exempt from license to qualify they have to be antique and on a list of obsolete calibres 44 Russian being one plus many other plus any rim fire and cap/ball as long as they are antique no new builds such as pietta etc these have to be put on tight regulated license thanks for the reply. Forgot to say if we want to shoot them the they have to be put on license if just collectors piece no problem bit of a bummer.
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opoefc
US Veteran
Welcome to the Forum. The production log for the .44DA models show that serial number 34076 was made Jan. 26, 1897. As said above , a factory made target variation of this Model is very uncommon and the original box puts it over the Moon! . S&W made all the frames for this model early in it's production cycle and then later assembled the guns as orders were received, so some guns show shipping dates as late as early WW1 era. You can order a factory historical letter from the S&W Historical Foundation, which will tell you when, where and to whom the gun was shipped and it's configuration when shipped. Cost is seventy five US dollars. Your bank can give you a certified check in euros or pounds, convertible to $75 US at what ever the exchange rate happens to be at the date of the check, if you want to order a factory letter. There's a link on this Forum to the application form for the letter. You have found a very nice S&Ws, worth quite a bit here in the US ! Ed.
Many thanks for a great reply will order letter,yes Im very pleased with it. Richard.
How large were production lots? I own No 34641, a DA First Model in .44 Russian, although not a Target Model. Mine shipped in May of 1900 and perhaps it is from the same lot produced 26 Jan 1897?
Pictured below--with silver coin folk art front sight.
Attachments
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Thank you opoefc for confirming that mine was not out of the same production lot, but rather from the lot produced 03 Feb 1897.
Any ideas as to the size of a production lot? Edit: My understanding is that, in this serialization range, the order was for 300 blued guns, but batch size tended to be a few guns every few days.
Also, when a revolver is said to have been made on 03 February 1897, for example, I assume that means that was the day the frame was forged and the revolver was not assembled until later, on an unknown date prior to shipment?
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opoefc
US Veteran
My understanding is this: Many years ago when Roy Jinks was furnishing info to the ATF regarding production dates for S&Ws vs. the before or after 1/1/99 date in order for the ATF to say which guns were antiques and which guns were not, etc. , he found records that indicated all the frames for the .44DAs were forged and stored for future production before 1/1/99, therefor all .44DAs are classified as antiques by the ATF. To answer Doc's question above re:" 03 Feb. 1897" If the production log shows that date for a specific serial number, I interpret it to mean that a forged frame was taken from storage, milled, polished and serial numbered and used to assemble a complete .44DA and if the Floor Foreman's notes show that date for that serial numbered .44DA, that's the date the gun was considered to be "made" and ready for inventory in the vault, and the Floor Foreman got paid for a completed gun. The build would be because the Floor Foreman had received an order from marketing to build a batch of guns, usually 25 to perhaps as large as 300, blue or plated. The build might not be in consecutive calendar dates but spaced over a time period of several months, as the logs show gaps in dates that guns were completed, probably because of slow sales. Hope that helps. Ed.
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Welcome to the forums from the Wiregrass, richhack! Beautiful package!
Thank you !!! Your response was exactly formulated as to the way I was thinking--e.g., relative to frames all being pre-1899. I had envisioned a vault full of frames, all pre-1899, that awaited assembly from component parts at some point prior to shipping, perhaps just prior to shipping. So, this idea is dispelled and assembly would then have been soon after forging.
Update
Hi. Have received factory letter very quickly many thanks Don (Club Gun Fan) for your help, gun was shipped on Sept 4 1897 to M W Robinson Co New York City with 6.5 inch barrel Ivory bead front sight and adjustable rear target sight nickel finish and black checkered hard rubber grips, nice to know gun is all original thanks all for your input.
Hi. Have received factory letter very quickly many thanks Don (Club Gun Fan) for your help, gun was shipped on Sept 4 1897 to M W Robinson Co New York City with 6.5 inch barrel Ivory bead front sight and adjustable rear target sight nickel finish and black checkered hard rubber grips, nice to know gun is all original thanks all for your input.
No thanks needed, but, your welcome. Remember you are the reason we are here doing letters. I'm really glad we could help. I look forward to helping you in the future.
S&WsRsweet
Member
Wow richhack what a nice old revolver I have truly enjoyed reading about it and looking at this pictures ,welcome to the forum .
S&W Oldtimer
SWCA Member
Welcome to the forum.
Welcome to the S&W Forum! You have a lovely conditioned 44Russian. Do you plan to keep it as a Collectable only, or do you intend to shoot it? I spent a couple years in your fine country back in the early 60's at RAF Sculthorpe in Norfolk county by Fakenham. I have many found memories of roaming around that part of England, Hunstanton, Kings Lynn, Sheringham, Norwich.
I understand the strictness of the ownership of firearms over there. I could own a firearm, but it had to be kept at the Gun Club on base. If I recall correctly you had to apply for your license and state how many rounds of ammunition you would shoot the following year, and if approved, that was the limit if ammo you could purchase and all purchases were deducted from your license.
I understand the strictness of the ownership of firearms over there. I could own a firearm, but it had to be kept at the Gun Club on base. If I recall correctly you had to apply for your license and state how many rounds of ammunition you would shoot the following year, and if approved, that was the limit if ammo you could purchase and all purchases were deducted from your license.
One fly in the ointment of a parts bin full of 44 DA frames is there was long and short cylinder production overlap. The long cylinder was made starting in 1886, with the introduction of the 44 Frontier, and appeared to end the production of the short frame 44 Russian DA. One would normally assume they first worked off their inventory of original short frames and then started using the long frames for both the 44 Russian and the 44 Winchester (Frontier) double action revolvers.
Using ship dates and documented 44 Russian long & short cylinder guns, it appears that most encountered short cylinder guns occurred before s/n 15,000 to 20,000, leaving over 40,000 44 Russian guns made with long cylinders. Certainly, having 15 years, from 1886 to 1899 to produce enough long frames to last the company well into the 1900s would have been no problem.
All that should tie the dilemma up with a neat bow, BUT is that there are 44 DAs short cylinder 44 Russians listed in the SWCA shipped in 1897, in the 35,000-40,000 serial number range & one 44 Russian with short cylinder in the 54,000 range. On the other hand, I had a long cylinder 44 Russian DA in the 53,000 range. While most post 1886 guns seen on this Forum appear to be long cylinder, the company must have had two bins with frames and why one was chosen over the other may never be known.
Using ship dates and documented 44 Russian long & short cylinder guns, it appears that most encountered short cylinder guns occurred before s/n 15,000 to 20,000, leaving over 40,000 44 Russian guns made with long cylinders. Certainly, having 15 years, from 1886 to 1899 to produce enough long frames to last the company well into the 1900s would have been no problem.
All that should tie the dilemma up with a neat bow, BUT is that there are 44 DAs short cylinder 44 Russians listed in the SWCA shipped in 1897, in the 35,000-40,000 serial number range & one 44 Russian with short cylinder in the 54,000 range. On the other hand, I had a long cylinder 44 Russian DA in the 53,000 range. While most post 1886 guns seen on this Forum appear to be long cylinder, the company must have had two bins with frames and why one was chosen over the other may never be known.
Hi H Richard just going to keep it as collectable to shoot it would need to be put on firearms license which is a lot a hassle over hear, if not shot it can be kept as an antique obsolete calibre item with no problems and kept at home.
Hi Gary. The cylinder is 1 7/16
Hi Gary. The cylinder is 1 7/16
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