Newb and 44mag

[UTO]

Starline 44 mag brass
Winchester Large pistol primers
21 grns IMR 4227
Oregon Trail 240 grn LSWC


All being shot out of a 4inch 629 magnaport

So far so good, but im seing unburnt powder in the barrel when checking for leading, what could be the cause?? Thanks in advance

 

[gregintenn]

Try a little more crimp?

 

[UTO]

Will do, using Lee factory crimp die for what its worth

 

[jimbo728]

A little bit of unburned granule is normal with 4227 and 2400.
Just keep it out from under the ejector star.
If you are getting the accuracy you want dont worry about it if you keep it out of the seating area of the star.
You can look at crimp too, but dont overcrimp. Bullet deformity may occur.
Jim

 

[cowboy4evr]

Some of that is just " filler " not really unburnt powder . Also , with IMR 4227 use a full Magnum primer , The winchester primers are 1/2 way between a std and a magnum primer . IMR 4227 is one of those real slow burning powders and it performs much better with a " full " magnum primer like a CCI 350 . I use it extensively in 41 magnum and 44 magnum loads and I always use a full magnum primer .

 

[4barrel]

Like Cowboy said. The filler will be in the cylinder & barrel & look like powder. H110 is cleaner & you can load 2400 way down. I like 4227 more for .357. I think I picked up a little accuracy with mag primers & 4227. I need do do some more 50 yard & out when I get time.

 

[UTO]

accuracy is real good at 15 yards so im pleased. No signs of over pressure and nothing under the star so its prob filler (which i had no idea existed lol) i will try some magnum primers next. Thank you for the replies i have alot to learn. Reloading is an awesome add on to a hobby i already loved

 

[SLT223]

The cause of that is simply IMR4227. That powder needs about 30kpsi to burn well and even then you'll have unburned kernels. Just ignore it. It is a great powder in 44 Mag. Super accurate, and easier on he gun than double base powders. I use the 21gr load you mentioned in 29's 629's and a Winchester 1892. There are few kernels left behind in the 20" rifle barrels, but they are still there.

 

[SLT223]

Can the "filler" posters please explain to me how a filler is homogenized in a container of powder? Achieving volumetric component consistency has me scratching my head a bit.

 

[UTO]

Yea im pleased with the way it shoots, was just wondering. Thank you for the replies im sure ill be picking your brains further!!

 

[Qc Pistolero]

Like Cowboy said,use a Mag primer.It'll help a bit.Your load is on the mild to medium side so it is normal to find some unburnt stuff.Even with full charge loads,you'll find some;only just a bit less.But IMR 4227 is one of the best for the .44 Mag;some others will give more FPS but at a price.And I have yet to find a load with it that is not accurate.Have fun.
Qc

 

[4barrel]

Can the "filler" posters please explain to me how a filler is homogenized in a container of powder? Achieving volumetric component consistency has me scratching my head a bit.

It is the only powder that does that in every caliber I have tried it in. It does good so I dont worry. If there is another fix I would like to hear it. 44 mag & 357 it is there. My shooting buddies have the same problem which is not really a problem. With mag primers it is still there. I still like it. Have you tried it? I have only been trying it for a little over a year. Nothing wrong with my groups. Just more fish to fry.

 

[Nemo288]

What IMR4227 looks like close up

This is the second thread I have seen where 4227 is referred to as having a "filler".
I use a lot of it, have closely inspected it, and see no evidence of anything but the granules of powder.
Using IMR4227 in the big 445 at 40kpsi and above there are no unburnt grains, just a very small amount of the usual ash you see from any powder.
I suspect this ash is from the stabilizers, graphite and other non-nitro compounds that help regulate the burn rate among other things.

Using Unique at 44 special pressure you see the same thing the OP is complaining about with flakes of powder
dumping back out of the cylinder and into the works sometimes causing the extractor star to hang up.

If the OP wants a cleaner burn at magnum pressures or below, 2400 or even Unique/Universal might be the way to go.
They are faster and denser than 4227.
I don't think you can get enough 4227 in a 44 shell to go over pressure.
Try loading it to 100% density or a little over and you may get less mess.

Here's what IMR4227 looks like close up:
No filler to be seen, just the granules.

 

[Qc Pistolero]

I'm 100% with you Nemo;IMR 4227 is,in my opinion a little too slow for the ''boiler room''size of the .44.I also think like you that one would to have to either work hard or use a weak .44Mag to get into trouble with that powder.But let's keep it between you and I 'cause I'm sure that some Einstein will try and just might happen dying of hunger on his way up after making it happen!!!
Qc

 

[Wise_A]

If the OP wants a cleaner burn at magnum pressures or below, 2400 or even Unique/Universal might be the way to go.

Agreed, a medium-burner works well for .44 Magnum in most applications. If I were hunting or shooting IHMSA, I'd look to 2400.

If I might make a suggestion, Unique performs well at the ranges you're shooting at. It's a little dirty and smoky, but burns completely. Titegroup performed well at .44 Spl+P loadings with a lighter bullet, and is fine to use at Magnum pressures.

I've heard some say they have good results with Power Pistol.

For the life of me, I can't get Universal to burn completely in any cartridge I load it in, even near-max loadings for .44 Mag.

 

[MJFlores]

accuracy is real good at 15 yards so im pleased. No signs of over pressure and nothing under the star so its prob filler (which i had no idea existed lol) i will try some magnum primers next. Thank you for the replies i have alot to learn. Reloading is an awesome add on to a hobby i already loved

Welcome to the world of reloading. The 44 is a perfect place to start, and is very forgiving. Try some HP-38 sometime...the 44 magnum and HP-38 go together like peanut butter and jelly. Especially with plated or hard cast 240 grain bullets. Extremely clean burning.

 

[amazingflapjack]

I like Win primers, but prefer 10-12 grains of Unique over a 240 grain LSWC.

 

[cowboy4evr]

One of my favorite " shoot all day loads and have fun doing it " is 8.0grs of W231 / Ramshot Zip ( about the same ) with a 240 gr cast bullet . Velocity is just below 1000 fps in most guns . Ramshot Zip , In my opinion has less recoil than some of the other powders of about that same burn rate . I'm not recoil sensitive but my fiancé is , hence the reason for finding a powder suitable for her .
With the shortage of Unique all these years I switched to WSF (winchester super field ) using unique load data for starters . For me , it's a much better powder in several aspects . A gentleman that used to post on this forum got me started using it . I haven't looked back since .

 

[buck460XVR]

in a 44 shell to go over pressure.
Try loading it to 100% density or a little over and you may get less mess.

Yep, my best shooting loads in .44 mag come at just compressed to slightly compressed. Even at that, according to Lyman, pressure is considerably less than a max load of H110/W296 with the same projectile. I find that in .44 mag, velocity is a tad less, but accuracy is superior over H110/W296, especially in long piped revolvers and my carbines. I still use a lot of H110/W296, but it's more so because it's considerably cheaper to use for full house loads for range shooting.

IMR 4227 is,in my opinion a little too slow for the ''boiler room''size of the .44.

IMHO, IMR4227 is a poor performer in .357 mag because of the small case size, but in .44 mag with jacketed 240 grainers and above, it seems to perform very well for me. With lighter bullets, not so much. It is also my go to powder in .460 for bullet weights of 300 gr or more.

 

[Nemo288]

For the life of me, I can't get Universal to burn completely in any cartridge I load it in, even near-max loadings for .44 Mag.

That is a little surprising considering Universal was originally developed as a heavy load 12 ga. powder where pressures don't even reach that of the Specials.
I am afraid I don't have many suggestions for you except to report what I do.
One of my recent favorite 44 special loads is 6.5 grains Universal under a Rainier 240 PFP, COAL=1.475", CCI 300, taper crimp.
This bullet has no cannelure so a roll crimp is not possible.
Very accurate in the 696-1.
There is a very small amount of residue in the barrel but it is not powder.
Nothing comes back out of the brass to gum up the gun.

A similar load I use (I call it my Euro load) is 6.5 grains CSB-1 under a Rainier 240 PHP, COAL 1.5", Ginex P1 primer, Speer 44 special brass.
Again with the taper crimp.
I get 840 accurate fps out of the 696-0.
Absolutely no residue with that one.

For a rural carry/hunting load in the 44 special I use 8.5 grains Universal with a Sierra 210 JHC profile (roll) crimped in the cannelure.
Again with the CCI 300 using Starline nickel plated brass.
This load is almost assuredly over the 15kpsi mark and into that 20-25kpsi region Brian Pearce wrote about.
I won't shoot it in a Bulldog or 396 but all my steel S&W 44's will take an occasional test group.
I get 1055 fps out of a 696.
Sierra says I should get some expansion at this velocity.
Never had the opportunity to test that.
I am now experimenting with N105 to try for that kind of performance with a little lower pressure.
Why?
Because I like carrying this gun more than my larger magnums and don't feel the need for that level of energy around here.
Also because I have some N105 I got when 2400 disappeared during the shortage.